A Short Rant...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
Is Java so much better than C++ that people are willing to require users to get a fucking 118mb download of the Sun Java Runtime to run their precious aleatoric simulation? And then make those same users put up with that miserable fucking relentless “Update me” thing?
That was a rhetorical question, of course. The answer is “no.” I’m now adding compiled Java programs to my Big List Of Shit That Will Never Go On My Computer, along with anything made by PACE and Synthedit-based VST plugins. Fuck that whack-ass shit. Get over it and learn to code like a fucking adult.
And while we’re on the subject, I saw Damian Marley on the Henry Rollins show on Saturday. I thought the track he did was pretty good. So I hopped on the IFC website, and listened to the second track (bands that play on the Rollins show always have two tracks; one on the TV show, and one on the web) and I liked that one all right too. So I popped on to iTunes and whacked the “Buy This Album” button. A bit of downloading later and Damian Marley’s “Welcome To Jamrock” is on my hard-drive. Which brings me to my next rant.
To wit: I just paid $10 for an hour-long square wave. Seriously, this fucking album is so squished, every kick and snare is distorted. It is past nasty and in to comedy. It’s not a bad album at all, but I get all tired out listening to it. After three songs, I feel like I just ran around the block a couple times. Come on guys. They’re only called “dynamics” when you actually have them. Really fucking loud doesn’t equal really fucking good.
25 comments
Are you saying that there is some technical reason why Synthedit VSTs are bad? Or are you saying that they tend to suck and all-sound-the-same as a general rule, and so you avoid them?
Yes.
-CR
Hmpfhehe!
Maybe someone can whip up a grump cut filter?
;P
That's the reason why i build 2 SSL compressor clones. Digital is for sure not analog. And analog is where the dynamics are :-)
(and yes, i use digital plugins as well)
Java isn't all bad. On OS X a good JVM is preinstallted, and only asks to be updated when you run Software Update. But, that being said, Java has it's place just like any other language. It's great for network apps and things that need to be portable (ever try compiling C on AIX?). I don't consider audio or MIDI to be one of it's strong points. I had to hack the MIDI plug in for jSynthlib just to tell one MIDI output from another. And, just remember it could have been worse, it could have been Perl.
I use Java every day and love it to death. I would NEVER consider using it for audio or MIDI or anything like that. Aside from the punishment of having to download the runtime (and hope the user gets the right version), it's just not built for that. And it's not like C++ is that much more complex. WTF?
I'm wondering where you stand on SynthMaker ?
it has a C-esque code window to write filters/oscillators in and an ASM window for those who speak machine, alongside SSE utilisation capabilities, an engine which is per-sample rather than sample-block, and the usual boxes and draggy wires - except its a scalable vector interface.
does it still fall into the same camp for you as SE?
It's funny you bring that up. I was thinking of making an E.P. of generative electronic music, where the customer would also receive the programs I made to generate the music, and could (re)generate it themselves.
In that regard, I was looking at various hosts I could use to accomplish this feat, and Synthmaker was high on my list, specifically for the reasons you cite. It is, on the one, hand, far more sophisticated than SE. On the other hand, it is pretty obtuse, and the documentation leaves a lot to be desired. I haven't decided if he's getting my Euros or not yet.
As far as using Java for music, I think it has to do with there being (at one time) a lot of Sun workstations in computer departments around the country, which led to a "run what you brung" mentality in academia. I have a general dislike for Java apps in general, because they're slow and don't feel stable. But that doesn't make me completely anti-Java. I mean, fuck, this site (and all the posiNET sites) is in JSP. What are you gonna do?
-CR
Speaking for the prosecution, Java is a total piece of shit and a demonstration of group-think at its most mediocre. After years of saying no, I felt forced to install the giant hairball runtime so I could run JHymn and de-DRM my few purchased iTunes files.
> On the other hand, it is pretty obtuse,
> and the documentation leaves a lot to be desired.
While we're ranting, what's up with software going commercial without documentation? Synthmaker's a culprit, so is energyXT, Synthedit's documentation hasn't been updated in over two years, etc.
I'm a sucker for modular synthesis software, so have a lot of these packages. But even when I'm fairly comfortable using them, it pisses me off after a while that they ship without help files.
On the obtuseness of Synthmaker, I think it was a big mistake for them to create everything in five or six layers. Without docs, the only way to learn is by dissecting example files, but all of them have so many screen layers for every function, you can't see what is going for most simple functions.
i've never used a synthedit plug that didn't break or freak out or just spit out some kind of totally harsh random noise then CPU spike and piss me off. i gave up trying to use them a long time ago. some of them look interesting and seem to be full of good ideas.. they just never work for me... and there just way better stuff out there that's reliable so why bother...
i saw that henry rollins show.. i didn't know he had a show. it's always hilarious how that guy just keeps on finding a niche. it's great.
i thought the marley song was OK... perhaps the itunes version is just totally compressed?? i wonder what the CD sounds like.
shamann wrote: While we're ranting, what's up with software going commercial without documentation? Synthmaker's a culprit, so is energyXT/
yep... energyXT needs a help file in a big way. otoh, it costs $50 and it does *everything.* i can forgive to some degree because it's such a great value.
i've had great luck with a handful of synthedit plugs. stuff by odo, cockaigne, e-phonic... some of them are "go to" plugs for me. it's too bad there's so much shite you have to wade through to find the gems... synthedit is the "mp3.com" of the vsti world.
I'll bet you can think of bigger things to rant about than Java, Chris.
The Java runtime is even finding its way into Linux distros (via an easy installer for ubuntu, and bundled right into SUSE), and is in fact on every Mac install as someone just pointed out.
Trying to use Java for everything, or over-hyping it -- now that's a good rant. But when you see things like Processing, I think you can make a good argument that Java has its uses. I just think it's a matter of using the right tool for the right job. And C++ is still the best tool for a lot of jobs -- far more than Java. Anyway, anyone who's mastered Java is not going to have a hard time with C++, or visa versa.
What triggered this in the first place?
"What triggered this in the first place?"
That stupid little reminder. It doesn't have a "never fucking remind me, like, ever" option. The longest was 3 days. So I'd click "remind me in 3 days" every three days for about the last year or so, then it finally put me over the edge.
I'll note that I wasn't in a good mood to begin with. I was on an uninstalling kick, cleaning out Death Star (my big PC, as opposed to Tie Fighter, my PC laptop, Millenium Falcon, my Intel iMac, or Fucktard, my PPC iBook) of all its unneeded software. I accidentally uninstalled the SM Bus driver, so that was some drama, and during the restarting process, I got that fucking Java warning, and I just flipped out. The only reason I had it installed in the first place was to test some elements of the Jitter update for Windows back when I worked for C'74.
As for Shamman's comments viz. Synthmaker, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm a smart guy, and (obviously) know how to code, and I'm having a hard time making a simple step sequencer in Synthmaker. Knowing what I know about MSP, I'll say that Synthmaker has the potential to be almost as powerful, and actually moreso in some respects (like the "code" objects already mentioned, and a much better GUI method) but it is actually more difficult to learn.
-CR
Okay, I'll grant you that. The one platform where I've had problems with the Java runtime -- from things that are annoying to things that don't work right -- has been on Windows.
And yes, I'm with you on Synthmaker. If you can't document your software, release it open source. And if Chris can't build a step sequencer, it needs some work, seriously. ;)
The bigger issue isn't the stupid Java coding kids and CE majors, it's about the lack of dynamics in modern music.
AMEN to what you said.
I can't understand why any professional engineer would need to clip the audio to make it louder.
It's amazing all the ways you can make audio loud without clipping. I could mix something to -5db RMS without a single square peak in it, and I'm a rank amateur. Actually, controlled clipping was my shortcut to loudness when I first started PC recording (7-8 years ago) and had absolutely no clue what I was doing (making use of the mighty Scrollworks Peak Slammer).
It shakes my faith in claims of professionalism when there are so many pro folk out there completely beating the shit out of their audio.
An only slightly related question for professionals: is tracking hot signals the common practice? I did a remix of a track recently where all of the individual tracks (all mic'ed recordings of instruments, no synths) had clipping, in some places fairly severely. I was kind of shocked to see it, seemed sloppy for professional recordings. Since it is all mostly recoverable in post-processing, do they just not care in order to save on studio time?
In modern DAWs, the lower the signal input, the more dynamic range is included, and the better the resulting samples. (An offshoot of the Nyquist Theorem.)
I generally record with peaks at -10dBfs on the input, and generally mix the same way. My final render is at -8dBfs, and I make up any gain on the ass end; this gives me a lot of room to EQ on the master, plus I can use a multi-band limiter to its best effect, rather than just slamming the whole track in to a square wave.
Of course, it depends on the kind of music. If the album is largely electronic in nature, it's a lot easier to slam it and not feel bad than if it is mostly acoustic instruments. But the last three records I mastered I did much lower overall volume than I have in the past, and I was happier with them as a result.
But all that aside, you can always make up the gain later. It is much easier to mix a project that has tracks recorded at -10 or so than it is to mix one where everything is clipping. The internal summing buss on the DAW is generally happier with the lower levels, as well. If you're stuck ITB, you're much better off recording lower signals, IMO. Better to not have any clipping to begin with than to have to deal with it later. If you dither on the input (like I do) the dither will work a lot better with the lower signal, too.
As a semi non sequiter, has anyone here tried the Crane Song analog dither?
http://www.cranesong.com/analogdither.html
-CR
So then, my assumption that it was sloppy butcher work was correct. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that.
chris,
Synth Maker is still in Beta, so documentation has been on hold while new components were added. It wasn't like SE where there was a feature freeze - new components were coming thick and fast for a while there.
there has been a lot of comment on the SM forum about the lack of documentation, but currently it just makes us 'in the know'guys feel smarter than the newbs. ;)
the documentation status thread is in the Early Adopter forum, which makes me completely out of line by posting this ...
Malc said (Mon May 29)> "The good news is that the software is complete enough now to allow us to focus on getting some decent documentation out of the door. I spent some time over Christmas getting this started (yes it was that long ago). Unfortunately the many efficiency issues that came up post Christmas threw me completely off track. I resumed again several weeks ago, doing a little each day. The user guide is over half complete now and hopefully it won't be too long before it's finished"
Oh, I really cant wait for the day it hits V1 and the documentation is released - then instead of the forum being full of cool stuff like this
http://www.synthmaker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2409
it will be full of people saying "hw cn I make a 303 drum mchine, I am l33t producr !!!1111!!1"
/end sarcasm
Without soft, there is no loud.
The album I can't stand to listen to is Foo Fighters 'One on One.' Someone in that studio decided that if one instance of L3 was good, five instances = hit record.
Jamrock sounds pretty much the same as the last 200 dancehall/hophip tracks I've heard.
See, I have a strange take on that sort of thing because of the following:
(1) I _never_ listen to the radio.
(2) I _never_ watch MTV.
(3) I _never_ go to nightclubs.
So, while it may be the same as the last 200 dancehall albums you've heard, I haven't heard them, so it's new to me. I don't pay any attention to pop music. The joys of niche marketing.
-CR
I'm really a roots&dub head, but the reggae scene here is small enough that I cant avoid exposure to dancehall as much as I might wish otherwise.
You need to pull your head out of your ass. Just because the Java VM is inconvenient doesn't make it the wrong choice. I love it, frankly, because I only have to write code once and it runs on every machine someone could hand me. Lord, how did you ever get started using the internet? "But it's so inconvenient, I have to get a disk with WinSock Trumpet on it and then I have to configure it! Nobody should ever use it!"
On top of that, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that hypercompressed, clipped-to-hell music sells, and sells well. A lot of people make a lot of money on those albums. Is it for everyone and everything? Of course not. Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy them. Caveat emptor.
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