I'll probably regret this one...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
Dear Lazyweb:
I need one more multi-FX box. I’m extremely happy with my shiney new Eventide Eclipse (and at the risk of being both repetitive and boring, if you have the means, give Shawn a ring and get one your own bad self) and I’d like another multi-FX box to compliment it. Two caveats: maximum of $1100, and it must have AES/EBU I/O. I’m not fooling with any bullshit converters or impedance matching adapters. My shit is 100% AES in and out of my computer, and that doesn’t change.
So, what’s the most versatile and suck-free multi-FX unit, taking those two factors in to account? I’ve seen a couple PCM-81s going for that or less. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t turn down a PCM-91, even though it’s ’verb only, because I seem to be bouncing through the Eclipse while building a song, and finishing with a nice ’verb; might as well eliminate the middle-man. What I’d really like is a single-engined M5000, I think (as long as it had the digi card) but I’d be lucky to find one in that configuration for the price. So, the floor is open. Convince me.
32 comments
I would advice you to check out the TC M3000. It has the all the right connections, fantastic reverb algorithms, and you can pick it up for around 800usd. I think its a very versatile unit, and its two engine layout is very easy to use.
New it's over your budget, but I've always found the TC Fireworx to be a great compliment to my eventide. Super flexible and customizable, it seems to have that elusive "it just fits" in the track factor. The reverbs are lush, but is by no means "verb only". I think you can find a used one for 7.
Then, when all else fails, you can just grab yourself one of those emt plate knockoffs....No digital hookups, but who gives a fuck when you have a plate (space in your studio is another story...)
At that price, doesn't appear to be a lot of options. The TC stuff, the Yamaha SPX2000, the Line 6 PodXT pro.
Some Nady thing appeared to have AES/EBU I/O under $1000, but the quality seemed dubious to me. And the Line 6 seemed kind of like "fit as much as we possibly can in there."
I can't stand the Line 6 products. They all have a "sound" to them that drives me up the wall. I can't explain it better than that. There's NFW I'm buying a NADY anything, so that's out. I was thinking about the M3000, though. I've seen a couple used ones go for $695, and I was thinking that was a lot of kit for the money.
I'm not really interested in the Fireworx; it seems to be more slanted towards guitarists, not studio use.
-CR
I guess then your only recourse is Platesonics.
You guys just want me to buy that bitch so you can sit back and laugh while I type about what a pain in the arse it is to move a real plate, and how I had to build a separate room because it makes too much (real in-the-air) noise, etc. etc.
I'm not gonna be the guinea pig on that one, sorry.
-CR
You're just jealous because I (currently) have more stuff in my rack than you have in yours.
I'm looking at the TC site and trying to determine the differences between the M2000 and the M3000. AFAICT the difference is that the M3000 has the VSS3 reverb algorithm.
The Fireworx I messed with didn't really grab me.
The KSP8's above your $ threshold. Do the Rumor and Mangler have AES I/O?
--Adam
> Do the Rumor and Mangler have AES I/O?
Doesn't look like it based on what's on the Kurzweil site.
Why not go Hardware-software hybrid and get a UAD1 or
a Tc Poco
True, the Fireworx does seem geared towards gutarists, but it still interests me. Supposedly (according to interviews) Karl Hyde of Underworld is quite fond of his.
We have a fireworx and DSP400 as our workhorses and I love the fireworx. it really compliments the Eventide stuff. I found the fireworx to be really flexible and unique. You really need to spoend some time with the Fireworx and dig into programming it to see what it's got.
The Kurzweil KSP8 has AES I/O and is very flexible.
> The Kurzweil KSP8 has AES I/O and is very flexible.
But it goes for around $2500 doesn't it?
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the KSP8. I would have already bought a Rumour if it had AES, but it is SPDIF only. The weird thing is that almost no "pro" digital interfaces have more than one SPDIF port. I wonder what these manufacturers think they're accomplishing by making so much SPDIF-heavy gear.
Viz. the Fireworx, I guess I never really looked at it. It seems to actually be quite sophisticated. Well, it depends on whether I see one of those cheap first or an M3000. I would probably prefer the latter, but you know...
-CR
I'm planning to save up for a Reverb 4000. I hear nothing but raves about that box, unlike most recent Lexicon gear. It has the stereo versions of the System 6000 reverbs. It's still a ways off, but I'm saving my pennies.
How about the Eventide Reverb 2016? (S/PDIF, but you can usually convert RCA to XLR to get AES. It's the same chip on the inside, and they usually ignore the pro/consumer flag, which is the only difference in the digital signal.)
Or a Quantec Yardstick? Or, if I actually pay attention to your budget for a minute, an Alesis Q20? That's a fun MFX box with good reverb (almost identical to the Wedge, which kills the PCM-90).
The fireworx is a hideous piece of crap. I programmed a gang of presets for TC and couldn't wait to get the thing out of my studio. You can't use it as a return effect in the analog world as its latency seems to be the perfect amount to throw it well out of phase with the dry signal. And every single algorithim in there sounds like ass compared even to the onboard fx in some keyboards.
"S/PDIF, but you can usually convert RCA to XLR to get AES."
Not really. On the input, you have to attenuate the signal quite a bit to avoid digital distortion, and the output needs to be changed from coax to balanced via a transformer. I'm not going to put a $2K 'verb in my rack that needs a fucking adapter and only makes one sound. Plus I have the Stereo Room plug, which is intrinsically the same thing as the only preset I'll ever use, so there's not much point in it.
As for the Alesis box, I know you have a soft spot in your heart for it, but I gotta disagree with your detective work there.
-CR
perhaps the ideal choice for a man of your discretion and taste? well, it's hardly a multieffects box....
http://www.dacs-audio.com/Distribution/Ursa_Major/Ursa_Major_main.htm
Man, I know. But I don't know. You know?
I came across a bunch of Space Station IRs, and I loaded them up, and they sounded uniformly like shite. While I, like any reasonable person, know that IR simulation is crap in general (would you like that squeezed to death? Or with an utter lack of bandwidth? No problem on both counts!) I still expected it to be more, like, Wow, considering the pedigree of the box.
So, I hate to admit it, but I'm not confident enough in the Space Station to drop $1.3K on it without hearing it first.
-CR
That's (the Ursa Major) exactly what I was going to suggest. Seems like it'd be right up your alley. But I think it's outside your budget...
c.
For my money, the best under-$1K effects processor with AES/EBU I/O is the Sony DPS-V77.
As a dual-engine unit with a slew of complex algos and real-time control, it is in some ways a sibling to the Eventide Eclipse in terms of design aesthetic.
The sound quality is also tops. Reverb is on par with a Lexicon PCM-81, but quite different in character - more refined, detailed, "places," if you will, with a quite-lovely Plate. Many tasty delay options and the modulated delay effects will be lush. There are many other odds and sods in there too. Well-done UI to boot.
cheers,
Ian
Well, I sold the Q20s but kept the Wedge, so I guess I agree with you. Sort of. Cause the Wedge is the bomb, better than the ringy Lex 200 by a long shot.
If you really want a single engine M5000, then save for the Reverb 4000. Or buy something else, use it, sell it, then buy the Rev 4000 later. Or maybe THIS will be the year that TC has that DSP cheaper at AES.
TC guy came right out and told me that they reserve their good algo's for the high line, though they could easily make their cheap stuff sound better. That put me right off the company.
Well, of course they do. The hardware boxes, whether it's a Reverb 4000 or a Powercore, is acting as a "dongle" for the reverb algorithms. You're not just paying for the knobs and DSP chips, you're paying for the man years of research it took to ray-trace concert halls and get the results to sound good.
Then again, I think people should pay for music and software too, so what do I know.
Yeah, I gotta go with Jeff on this one. The DSP is the same in the M200 and the M2000; there's just more of it in the latter. You're paying for the math, which is most definitely the expensive part.
-CR
Y'know, I'd be fine with all that except I was working on a piece of gear (fireworx) that was a horrid-sounding piece of crap. How far does it need to be dumbed down to make sense for a Mfr? how about $14.95 versions of Audio Damage plugs that sound like ass? didn't think so.......
keep in mind too that fireworx wasn't cheap, either. i sold the one they gave me for $1800.
I have to agree re the Wedge...I've got three now - one is an extra if someone wants one ;)
At this point the Fireworx and the Wedge are my only outboard. Everything else is either PT TDM default FX or Waves TDM.
The Fireworx is really something special.
If you're really looking for the M3000, buy an old Poco Element (around $250,- used) and the VSS3 add-on (around $400,- new). gives you 4 instances instead of the M3000's 2 instances.
I also think the user-interface on TC's optional plugs are great!
Don't forget to check out the NONLIN2 algo, a bit of a hidden gem, very special.
Cocerning the Fireworks, I _really_ tried to like it, it's a programmers dream, with modulation capabillities without restrictions, etc..., but the sound was never satisfying to me.
cheers,
bernd
I don't know if anybody is still looking at this thread but here goes:
There is a TC M5000 for sale herer. Asking is $1800 CDN. Let's say i got lucky and could get it for $1600 CDN ($1420 USD).
Info is as follows:
The Unit was built in 1998 it uses version 3.53. It has a DSP 1 Engine and an ADA 1 Engine plus two empty slots.
I have seen a picture and it looks to be in good shape.
Is this a worthy purchase?
Here's another vote for the DPS v77, if you can find one, but be sure to confirm that it has the mini-din breakout cable before buying it, or you'll be stuck in the analogue realm. The pin-out may be diagrammed in the manual, but I don't have one those, either. Boo.
O, nice, here's one problem solved:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=31314
Comments are closed on this post.