Okay...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
We’re starting to think about the next Audio Damage product, and as always, we’re interested in what the masses want. Got a particular piece of hardware you’d like to see in a plugin format? Is there some whacky idea you’ve had that needs to be a plug? Let us know in the comments.
It is worth noting that a filter was asked for in the last Reverence thread, and we had some discussion about this. Both Adam and I are under the impression that there are a lot of fucking filters out there, and the world wouldn’t necessarily be a better place with another one in it. I’ve been pondering doing an MS20 filter, something which hasn’t been done in software to the point where it’s worth using, but that’d be a tricky little bitch. So, comments to that end are appreciated as well.
134 comments
The reverb was such a hit, what about an AMS verb, like Ambience in a plug? If you're looking for strange, maybe a good ring mod or octave effect. I'm not sure those have been done well in pluggyspace.
Uggh, sorry for that. I'm writing marketing speak today.
I've seen many requests for a native AU version of something like analog channel by MCDSP - tape emulation and saturation/distortion. PSP kinda sorta does that, but they are very slow in getting to the MacIntel party.
I second the ring mod and octave suggestion. Both something I would like to see done properly!!! :)
I often dump tracks from the DAW to my good old Tascam 424 cassette 4 track. I toy around with the dolby, on or off, and i get interesting textures that way, as with the speed of tape, especially voice recorders. Boards of Canada type stuff.
So, maybe a Dolby / Cassette tape fx plugin?
MS20 filter would be cool.
ASFAIK, fabfilter and the korg legacy ms-20 are the only reasonable attempts so far. Might be worth checking out for inspiration.
I think a virtual Ursa Major Space Station SST-282 would be great.
The VST world is lacking a nice spring reverb.
Re: MS20 filters
There are several. Both the fabfilter and Korg ones as mentioned, and Antti's filters in Basement Arts' Frantic Filter (which aren't bad, same filters in Asynth, although his moog ladder filter is better) and there's one in Vaz Modular which sounds really excellent, better than the Legacy one to my ears.
In theory I like either a ringmod/frequency shifter that actually sounds close to its analog counterparts, but I can't see the masses going out for that really. Similarly, I'd like to see a bitcrusher that outdoes the Sonic Alienator, especially if you did some tricky math that will let you tune the aliasing, but even then, folks might be satisfied with all the free options. I personally would love something in software that sounded as rough as the lo-fi loop junky, but I may be the only one.
I'd be up for a really playable multi-tap delay, most just simply aren't. Or a really excellent distortion. Or another reverb with a different flavour.
The MS20 filter was pretty well taken care of by the korg legacy version... the only benefit an AD version could have is lower overhead (due to just being a filter and not a whole synth).
"I personally would love something in software that sounded as rough as the lo-fi loop junky, but I may be the only one."
mmm, no, I'd buy that in a minute.
Probably too whacky to sell, but there's something interesting about the ring mod/Bode shifter. The Zvex Ringtone is interesting, and I use the bode module on the G2 a lot - fantastic on guitar when modulated with a slow LFO, interesting on drums.
Similarly with G2 playing, stereo bitcrushers with envelope followers are nice.
Otherwise, I'd second an AMS which can nail the Prince 'Kiss' bassline.
Or bite the bullet and do a synth. Something lofi and digital along the lines of ESQ-1, Prophet VS.
I still want AD to make a filter.
Yeah there's a lot of them out there, but there is a reason that I'm on this thread asking you guys to do one. Because you would do it right.
I also second the tape saturation plug suggestion.
I use Magneto when I need to, but I have to run 2 or three in a chain to get the saturated sound I'm after. I think there are other PC Tape sim VST options, but nothing I know of (not counting Vintage Warmer) for Mac. Maybe there's a good one I don't know about?
A spring verb is also a great idea.
How about branching out into something really different like a s'ware version of the Notron:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/jun97/latronicnorton.html
Three suggestions:
1.) Steiner Synthacon filter (with all three HP/BP/LP inputs).
2. ) CGS Bi-N-Tic Filter (I can guarantee you, this would be unique). Do you build your software around an analog circuit model, or just by ear? If it's model based, then the circuit diagram might be enough to start from.
Info on the Bi-N-Tic and Steiner filters here: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
3.) A nebuliser ala audiomulch, or a granular effects algo ala crusher-x. For some reason, I have never liked the way that Crusher-x sounds - I love it in theory, just not in practise.
Okay, to save the trouble of having this come up repeatedly, a spring reverb is virtually impossible to do in software. That's why there aren't any good ones. The company that could hack it will be able to take that idea to the bank, for sure. But it's unlikely to be hacked any time soon. That's a lot of math to model. So that's off the table for now.
We're familiar with the Bi-N-Tic and Steiner filters from CGS. I believe Adam has the former, if not the latter, in his modular. Personally, they don't do anything for me.
The tape saturation plug sounds like a good idea, and it's only one step away from a tape delay. Something to think about, anyways.
The multi-tap delay idea is the most obvious; we have some really good delay blocks, plus the diffusion necessary to pull off the "reverb" portion of the Space Station, compliments of the modelling work on Reverence. We've been looking for a reasonably priced Space Station for some time. Perhaps I should kick that search up a notch.
We're not going to do a synth, at least not yet.
-CR
if you do a synth, you should do something fizmo-alike. that's something that just hasn't been nailed yet.
would you consider doing a midi processor or MFX sort of deal? it would be cool to see a modular type realtime midi processor where you could set up all sorts of different midi transformations
MIDI processors are out, as far as I'm concerned. Too few hosts support them to make them worthwhile to build, and they remind me too much of my Cycling '74 days.
The one Notron I saw in person was so incredibly arcane to use that I lost interest pretty quickly, and I've read all sorts of horror stories about them dying in the hands of their owners after the company went out of business that I doubt that's a viable project. If we could find one, we'd never be able to tell whether or not it works correctly, and if it didn't, we'd be SOL. Besides, it's a MIDI processor; see above.
I have the Steiner CGS filter. I've passed up the Bi-N-Tic because 1) I wasn't entirely happy with the Steiner CGS design (e.g. I had to graft on a whole new CV processing section to get it to work right) and 2) everything I've heard about the Bi-N-Tic makes me not want one. I actually had a PCB for it but sold it unbuilt.
In the early days of AD I built a frequency shifter (in software). It was supposed to be part of a larger product which we never finished, but it might be worth dusting off the frequency shifter portion...
Brandon, of course you'd say that the KLC has the MS-20 filter covered adequately. ;-)
Doing something inspired-by the SST-282 has been on my wish list for a long time, but as CR said we've had trouble locating a unit to work from.
Keep 'em coming, folks!
--Adam
For what it's worth, I'd like to see you guys head a bit more leftfield with a new device (or two). Ie, if you choose to do a multitap delay, rather than just modelling a hardware unit why not push it to the extreme? (allow 3-500% of the 'natural' values on some of the knobs compared to normal, cross modulation features that didn't exist in the original or whatever).
I would definitely like to see an Audio Damage Ursa Major Space Station SST-282... would be a beautiful thing to behold.
We choose the values of the knobs based upon their most useful ranges; we don't generally rely on the hardware itself for this. The reasons are two-fold:
1) Software products have a much broader headroom than hardware products for the most part. We don't generally dumb down our products unless we're looking for a specific sound. (See Reverence).
2) The biggest problem with increasing the range of paramter knobs is that it makes fine-tuning them in the ranges that are actually useful quite difficult. Take a filter frequency control for example. On a low-pass filter, we can easily make the knob go from 0.00000000001Hz on up to 40kHz. But on a LPF, the tasty range is _significantly_ smaller than that, and would only occupy a 1 degree arc of the knob.
We set all the knobs up appropriate to their usefulness. With something like the Space Station, we wouldn't model it exactly, but just use it to get an idea of what works in that context; it's a multi-tap delay that is much loved, and we'd like to know why, and use that love in our own product. People that want a software _clone_ of the original can always buy Princeton's version.
-CR
imagine this plug-in -
http://aes.harmony-central.com/109AES/Content/Line_6/PR/Echo-Farm.html
now imagine it not sounding like a line 6.
and yeah, i'm still pushing for that radio shack mic modeler. i'd use it on _everything_.
-W
tape/lo-fi delay. yep.
I'd like to see something like the DSI Evolver delay/distortion section... multiple feedback paths, distortion, tuned distortion and bit crushing.
Signal flow is here http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/downloads/signal_flow.pdf.
-D
distortion for sure. screw the tape delay.
or how about a distortion/delay plug... ooh..ooh...oh
For something really left field, you could try modeling my favorite guitar effect, the 4ms atoner. See here:
<a href=" http://www.4mspedals.com/atoner.html 4ms pedals</a>
ugh. sometimes I think too hard, but never hard enough....
roland's side band filter ... or maybe DACS Freque II ....
i would totally go for the tape saturator or the delay. i would say a disto box with modeled feedback loops like on some of the effector 13 stuff: http://www.effector13.com/pedals/trulybeautifuldisaster/index.html
otherwise maybe some sort of mic modeler, not like the antares one. with crazy stuff you could do, i always like pointing mics in the wrong directions or leaving a bit of bleed on the monitors for feedback.
good luck
If you wanna really impress people, get the rights to the Ensoniq library and come up with a Mirage and/or ESQ softsynth. That would be your biggest seller. Don't believe me? Ask a Goth. BTW — I think someone else wanted a FIZMO plug. That's a definite!
Failing that pipedream, a really good Overdrive AND Distortion plug with tone control would rock. Think MXR Doubleshot.
my voting (in no particular order)
Tape/Saturator - Fatso or distressor like
Zvex lo-fi loop junky - someone mentioned that early, and it got my vote too
Filter - Mutronics Mutator - check it here: www.mutronics.co.uk it's one of the greatest filters ever
Ursa
Amx 16 (can you do the non lin ?)
That's it. Do all these and i'll be your client for the rest of my life. Actually, i'm alredy that client.
All I really want is a NFR spring reverb RTAS. I promise I'll review it on my blog. My readership is is n huge (n cannot be guaranteed to be greater than 0).
....
I really enjoy that you guys don't venture much into the obvious / common. I know this must increase risk / suppress sales, but I appreciate it everyday. EQs and compressors seem to be ablely handled by some other folks (even if the prices are what they are), so I say stick to things that are both unique but useful (and away from synths).
I always wanted a UE-405 and now that you have the dubstation, phasor, all that is missing is a semi-terrible parametric eq and the sloppiest compressor known to man and you are there. My favorite thing with this was to do the feedback via the mixer board which isn't very feasble in plugin form. Doesn't fit into the tighly focused plugin model you guys have, though.
The MS-20 would be nice. It has been eons since I touched one but I have very fond memories. I have a frostwave which is sorta like a MS-20 filter. It is great in a different way. I've not used the Korg version so I can't say if it is a decent replacement.
I've always like the EH Bass Synth. I always felt it could be beefed up in a few ways. I think I love the concept more than the implementation (and yes, I own the one pre-reissue).
Ring-mod? Most seem to have a love/hate thing going with Ring-Mods. All digital versions all seem a bit lacking (what does it say the Apple / Logic perhaps has the best one going?) Can't say it really gets my juices going.
Tape-delays are always desired. I've not tried the UAD Space Echo but no one has made a great tape delay in my book yet. I've made better than most myself in kyma, and they are terrible in comparison. I used to love using the RE-301 as this compressor / smasher effect sans echo. I can't say I've had to use an Echoplex so I don't know if that is the desirable. That said, my love of delays and echos stems largely from being able to route and cross feedback on the board and plug-in versions get more limited and specific use (though still frequent).
So we are back to reverbs. I'd really love an EMT-244. I'm almost ready willing to drop the nearly $2k they go for as it is.
Probably not what you are looking for, but I'm still after the ultimate multitrack analog sequencer for a tablet PC. The ability to have a different sequences all in sync or not, running on a different MIDI channels controlling my hardware with the flick of a stylus/pen. Think Sequentix P3 and MiniMuic on steroids.
I would love a harmonizer plug-in. There are very few of those on the market that I have been able to find... Do a vintage harmonizer!!
How 'bout a VCS 3? That could be an effect, right?
Despite the fact that there are a number of filters out there, I'd still like to see the Audio Damage take on one. As it was brought up in the Reverence thread, Waldorf's D-Pole is still a pretty unique filter; especially when you consider that it's not a stereo filter, it isn't crammed with a "metric fucktonne" of filter models, and it's modulation options are pretty limited.
A similar effect would probably be pretty welcome. Perhaps focusing on more esoteric filters (the Synthacon, the GX-1, CS-80, EDP wasp or OSC OSCar, etc.).
I'm not sure how it would be implemented under a software developer business model, but one of the things that has always attracted me to the analog-modular type of setup has been the option of picking what type of filters you want. If you don't want/need a plain old diode-ladder lowpass, don't buy one. Pick up an SEM filter instead. Perhaps you two could develop a basic filter plug-in ala D-pole, and then sell versions with different filter models? I know this goes against the usual "Look at all the extra stuff you get" marketing methodology, but what the hell.
Honestly, any plugin that was intended for use in a modular environment (eXT, Bidule, etc.) would be cool in my book. Particularly if it produced/modified midi (i.e. replacing the CV modules in an analog modular).
my 2 cents
a multi-effect:
granulation (similar to audiomulch's granulator)
reverb (w/ability to modulate the pitch of the reverb tail)
saturation/distortion
bypass button on each section w/anything into anything routing. wet/dry/output controls
my friend has camelphat which has some interesting bits but the FX are kind of vanilla for my tastes. who needs another flanger/phaser? so something like that but w/more interesting FX w/flexible routing would be quite cool. especially if there was a multi i/o version and not just stereo/mono.
Ring Mod, done interestingly.
Id go for a tape delay/saturation. I have one that I like the sound but its unstable as hell. Guess I got what I paid for. Nothing.
No interest in distortion, bitcrushing or any of that hair band type stuff.
I say a multitap delay, with lots of taps, and tape style saturation. Right now, I am passing the sound through the same tape delay plugin many times, to get a cool sounding reverb. But having multiple instances of the same plugin is a lot less efficient than having it in one plugin - and because I have different settings on each delay, it is a pain to manage presets.
If you are going to do a synth plugin, please don't do Yet Another Analog Subtractive Synth Emulation. I would like Additive Synthesis, morphing between partial settings corresponding to attact, decay, release and sustain... and then having a parametric EQ, with morphing between settings at the attack, decay, release and sustain. But there are so many bad analog synth emulations out there, no-one needs another one.
We're not doing a synth. How hard is it to understand that? :-) Obviously we're not doing YA analog/subtractive emulation. That's been done to death. Camel and Virsyn have done a pretty good job on Additive. There's a couple of good FM plugs out there now. All sorts of people are doing wavetable/subtractive which is what the Ensoniq stuff was based on. Etc. And it's a brutal and fickle market, very much like the hardware synth market. People say they want something New and Different, and then they bitch if it doesn't make familiar sounds like a minimoog and a Prophet-5. (Anyone here besides me old enough to remember when you couldn't go into a keyboard store without hearing someone demoing with the Van Halen "Jump" sound?)
ultramike: Been there, done that. Discord 2 _is_ a vintage harmonizer emulation. it's less obviously related to the *cough cough*ide hardware than version 1 was, and it does a helluva lot more, but its core is a fairly direct emulation of old pitch shifters.
matrix: building the ultimate analog-style step sequencer is what I do on my nights and weekends off, but I'm not doing it for a Tablet PC. Not that I have anything against tablets, mind you--I want one badly but haven't yet scraped up the $ and rationalization--but hardware's my hobby, so my sequencer has (or will have) the real stuff: lots of knobs, lots of buttons, lots of blinky lights. CV/gate outputs. Maybe not even any MIDI. The very early stages of it are spread across the desk next to me: eight rotary encoders and bi-color LEDs on a PC board, a 40x2 character LCD, and a RISC microcontroller, all connected together with ribbon cables and a solderless breadboard. Gotta start somewhere.
--Adam
Oh, forgot to mention: the reason that most ring mod plug-ins don't sound right is that lesser DSP programmers think that ring mod is the easiest thing in the world to code because it appears to just be simple multiplication. The reality is that the translation into the digital realm isn't quite so simple. Very few people have gotten it right. I know that I didn't when I did Pluggo's ring mod, "but I was young and foolish then, I feel old and foolish now."
--Adam
interesting stereo stuff:
try to get the dvd demo for the neve masterpiece box, the shit they're doing with phase and stereo is astonishing. also, littlelabs makes a box which does continuous phase shift (as opposed to a polarity switch), which is also a wonderful way to take a stereo recording and give yourself a lot of interesting and sometimes dramatic options to choose from at mix or mastering stage. there are plugs which do sample delay but that's not the same.
also, i haven't heard an ADT or doubler plugin that I like yet.
What ever happened to the Pulse Modulator-style filter? Did it get shelved and I just missed the post, or are you guys still planning on releasing it?
I too would like to see you guys tackle a filter. I would buy an Audio Damage LP filter in a heartbeat, as I'm sure it would beat the crap out of the competition.
Actually, a morphing waveshaper would be cool too! Maybe have it change the waveshaping over time, or morph between waveshaping with an LFO, or maybe make it midi controlled.
Roland RE 301 Chorus Echo
Maestro Universal Synthesizer System USS-1
Ibanez AF201 auto filter
Digitech WH-1 Whammy
Household 3 speed oscillating fan emulation (you know, for singing through)
Audio Damage plugs are the bees knees....thanks for all the hard work.
I'd like to see audio damage's take on a granular/mangler type of device. there's a few out there sure, but most are either pc only or are part of a shell program i.e reaktor. something along the lines of the tim exile stuff, but maybe something with some better filtering options.
i'd actually wouldn't mind the ms-20 filter either though.
probably not a worthwhile project, but as far as obscure high-high-high end gear that no one has anymore goes, there's always the Publison Infernal 90. i haven't seen one in person in years but it really was an amazing piece of gear (for 1987, that is)
http://gearslutz.com/board/archive/index.php/t-606.html
Oooh. The USS-1. That is near and dear to my heart. This is the second time someone has requested that, interestingly enough. I had an email a while ago. (Perhaps it was from meeglosh? I don't think so.)
In any case, we tried out a bit of input-to-square-wave action, which is the starting point for things like the USS-1, octave pedals, the Micro Synth, et al. We couldn't really get it happening, though.
I think we've decided what we're leaning towards, for what it's worth. More when it's appropriate.
-CR
whoa. yeah the uss-1. that would be pretty cool. or the Synthi Hi-Fli, for that matter...
Zvex Machine.... crossover distortion is the fucking shit!!!!!!!
puhlease!!
=)
Marshall Time Modulator would be nice ;)
It's pricey, but there happens to be a USS-1 on the 'Bay at this very moment:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Maestro-Universal-Synthesizer-System-USS-1_W0QQitemZ220024631486QQihZ012QQcategoryZ41419QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If only our studios could be filled with more than dreams and drool....
I'd like to see a plugin sequencer like the Sequentix P3 ( http://www.sequentix.com/ ) or the Doepfer Maq, that would output midi notes and cc and would allow a way of composing not possible yet in software sequencers.
a badass granulator would be really great.
I like the idea of a tape saturator/compressor, if it sounded something like the real thing. (not being a coder, I have no idea how hard that would be, though.)
If there wat to be a multitap tape delay or a granular delay, it would be really really cool if it had a lot of potential feedback paths, stereo feedback, etc.
Additive synth.
a transient designer would be great.
for osx I only know of sony (for PoCo) and waves, which are (far too) pricey - and fishphones dominion is os9 only.
a granular fx similar to thonks "stretch to..." algorithms could be nice!
Hi Chris&Adam!
- it would be cool to have a MuRF inspired device starting from 907/914, attaching a programmable step sequencer (16 steps x 8 tracks/filters) that triggers an envelope assigned to the volume of the filter frequencies.
I've tried to do an emulation using FlStudio internal controllers, but it's far from perfect (the main problem come from the envelopes, cause I've used triggered envelopes, but there's an envelope for every frequencies, and their shape is not linkable...).
- i'd also like to have a tuning knob on the 914 that shift musically the frequencies of all the filters.
your products are really cool!!!!
Kokko
Hi
an idea for the new plug-in:
a software emulation of the Alesis BitrMan
its the best hardware bitcrusher/noisemaker I`ve seen so far.
Links & Info:
http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/technotes/issue3-modfx/
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Alesis/Bitrman/10/1
P.s.
Love you stuff :)
A Moog fooger Phaser might be cool.
OMG!!!!!
No more tapdelays or filters!!!! Please!!!! There a millions out there!
Do something that nobody dares = GRANULAR !!
Mangler, looper, synth, effect .... ANYTHING!
Realtime effect would be sweeet. But it has to be good! Better than the rest!
granular synthesis always has and always will........... suck. :)
Okay I'll throw one in.
I don't know if you are familiar with the old Lexi PCM-80, but there was a 6 voice delay algorithm that I used a lot. It was 6 delay lines with modulation, filter (hp, lp, bp) and diffusion.
So basically with these raw building blocks you could create rich choruses, multi-tap filter delays (sync to bpm), reverbs and anything in between.
Of all the hardware that I used to use that is the one that I miss the most and it's because of that algorithm.
PSP came close with Nitro but not quite (no diffusion and other things).
I could imagine that the reason this isn't recreated in software is that this might be a CPU hog? Remember this thing ran on two DSP chips in hardware. But you guys have like, voodoo code that can make it happen. : )
Maybe this could be a thought for a new Ronin?
/////// tape simulation (dolby, vari-speed and saturation) with granulation possibilities///////
this would "add" vibe to any track for sure...
Anyone remember on Pink Floyds "Live at Pompeii" when David Gilmour is playing though the EMS Pitch to CV Convertor and using (what I gather as) the EMS Synthi to process is guitar and he's getting some crazy guitar synth tones using the Synthi Oscillators. I could sure go for something like that. I would use it a lot on everything, drums, vocals, guitar, bass, etc.
Something simpler like the EHX Guitar/Bass Synthesizer would be cool too, but maybe with a glide/portamento function.
Keith.
I've been thinking of a kind of specialized distortion unit. The basic premis is to use an envelope follower on the input side to reapply the original (or possibly modified via envelope settings changes) dynamics to the overdrive output. I've been thinking about rigging this up in reactor for a while, but haven't gotten around to it. Possibly, now that I think of it, you could also use the envelope to modulate the tone setting. Also, it would be nice to have a nice 2 or 4 pole multimode filter in place of whatever one pole deal it is that distortions usually use for tone control. Then, I'd think it would be good to be able to apply the filter/tone either pre or post distortion...
Also, I'd like to see a modular vocoder type deal where you can tweek the individual bands a bit, and basicly fuck shit up spectrum-wise but with an analog modeled sound. I know there are plenty of vocoders around. I just expect yours would probably be the best value if it existed.
hi there.
a tape (and not a tape delay) fx would be awesome, specially if very simple (3-4 knobs).
I agree that there are a lot of nice filters around, but good, responsive envelope filters are still kinda rare. even a BassBalls emu would be nice.
a tape looper Revox-style.
the tricky bastard, a Leslie. or something along the Vibratone.
a 3 band graphic eq that oozes AD's voodoo. aargh, can't keep it to myself...wipe the Valvetone'62 away, please!
just random ideas, here.
oh, and another vote for the Octaver's lost cause.
I imagine that channel strip with some AudioDamage style and flavor would be nice.
"granular synthesis always has and always will........... suck. :)"
You're just not doing it right, Donald.
But I will say granular synthesis isn't particularly deep, there are two maybe three ways of doing it, and that's about it. Get those and you have it covered. And I can't see that granular effects are in short supply. Maybe there are more on the PC, but isn't that why god invented Pluggo?
Well I'm sure Chris and Adam now have a good idea of the next 3 new plugins they want to do, but another one for the fold: based on several suggestions here, maybe a general "sound like old gear" effect would be desirable, similar in spirit to the TC Character plugin, something designed to subtly enhance/alter the timber of a sound, only lo-fi. There's the Otium Sonitex thing that is based on a similar idea, I guess, but I don't think the results matched what they sought out to do with it.
""granular synthesis always has and always will........... suck. :)"
You're just not doing it right, Donald."
very possibly, but I've been playing around with grains since MSP apperead and all the various awful vsts and AUs, and have never found it intersting. To my ears , hearing granular effects sound already sound completely dated (minimal techno circa 2001) no matter how theyre used. This is just me and my stupid opinion though, I'm sure there are many of you that find it useful and fun.... you just have poor taste (kidding, kidding).
Adam, can you write some code that will counteract the ringing in my ears when working in my DAW?
"you just have poor taste"
Goes without saying, of course.
"If you wanna really impress people, get the rights to the Ensoniq library and come up with a Mirage and/or ESQ softsynth. That would be your biggest seller. Don't believe me? Ask a Goth."
I've heard that "somebody" is actually working on pretty much exactly this. ;)
My vote goes for a decent sounding ring-mod, BTW. Or maybe a Tel-Ray Echo emulation, but the math for that is probably even worse than for spring reverb.
I know I emailed you about this recently and you replied instantly to say it was impossible, but the DOD BUZZ BOX!
also, I know this I've propsed this a year ago or so and was thought to be kidding, but a "shitty-audio-cassette" tape emulation effect that has controls for hiss level, tape warping, and that sound that happens when the tape is misaligned and starts to get eaten... that'd be rad.
oh and I'd buy a good dedicated MS-20 filter audio unit!
Some 2 track tape (Otari, Revox, whatever) plugin that would sound like one. Or Dimension D maybe?
Lexicon Vortex, only without the bucket loads of hiss.
Other than that, the Spacestation or a ring mod would be cool.
Hi I have three selfish suggestions:
1) I agree with a ring-mod harmonics builder wacko software... somewhat like a ring-mod that not only add that distorted PING to the input but also based on the input and ring, builds harmonics synthesis to add extra texture and drone... so it's sounds random, but it's actually all mathematics. Check Msp/max based Mlooch... but more realtime based... so that it can be loaded onto small palms and touch screens to work live...
2) Again a selfish suggestion... A sample and loop machine... basically using laptop numeric keys to trigger samples. Hence we can have more than 30 samples or loops assignable. And when we press the shift button the sample or loop plays backwards. And if we press tab it loops... not to mention being able to pass real time effects processing...
3) Ok, greedy me suggesting so many things. How about a software version of Moogerfoogers? That we can add unlimited filter units and ring mod units into the window and chain them up. Then on "FLIP" mode we switch to the back where the patching happens and we are free to patch in any configuration we want. :P
Don't kill me... I will worship you as a god if you fulfil even one of these :D
As far as cloning the Moogerfoogers directly goes, that's a bit above our pay grade. We don't have the sales to approach a company like that; plus I believe Digidesign has a lock on Moogerfooger clones, via their purchase of Bomb Factory.
Once again, we're not going to do a synth, be it granular, Mirage, whatever. (Although a plugin of a Mirage that could load Mirage samples? That'd be something I'd buy, for sure.) And I gotta kinda go with Don on the "granular synthesis sucks" vibe. There is _one_ granular patch, included with MSP, that is kind of interesting (when it isn't crashing) but I can't see making a viable product from the concept.
Adam is a ring-mod hater, and has told me several times that it is quite difficult to do proper ring-mod in software. (He mentioned it in this thread like 70 posts back.) I'm a ring-mod lover, myself, and would like to have a ring-mod product that was basically the same as the Moog pedal. (With tempo sync for the LFO, of course.) but I don't see that actually selling more than, like, 8 units, so it's unlikely we'll do anything like that.
Back to the Lo-Fi Loop Junky for a minute, as that seems to have the most votes, and is something we could accomplish. Now, this would essentially be a performance tool, because (unlike the real thing) it wouldn't be able to save its memory. I know shit like this is a blast to play with live, and with full MIDI control it would work basically exactly like the pedal. The only thing I see that we would do differently from the Zvex model is changing the "safe" switch to a reverse switch.
For those not in the know, the product page for the Zvex pedal is here:
http://zvex.com/junky.html
-CR
this:
http://www.retrotownmusic.com/catalog/images/uss1.jpg
maestro uss-1.
start now.
I think there's plenty of filters, delays, EQs, and permutations of such.
I like the idea of a ringmod, but I'd much prefer something along the lines of an SPL Transient Designer. Something to really shape dynamics, maybe with just a touch of saturation along with it.
To me, that would be a "use-on-every-track" type of effect, and not a "use-only-on-one-track" effect, like a ringmod or a looping delay.
However, another idea that would be great is a tempo-locked looper, that works like the sample RAM in the Machinedrum, and not like an echoplex. That would be more of a performance tool than anything else. But imagine - a continuous audio buffer that grabs 1-8 bars of audio, then lets you grab smaller loops, offset the smaller loops by quantized amounts, lets you mix the original signal in in quantized "chunks", and lets you trigger different slices using midi notes - all in real time. I don't want a looper for hippy spacerock - I want a tempo-locked looper for chopping up beats and sampling in real time.
Cheers,
- Gustavo
i like the octave idea (up and down...maybe a virtual whammy pedal-type thing) and the ring mod is a cool idea, so long as you can pick both inputs, with a built-in wave generator for the second input :) that might be a lot of work though...i don't know much about that stuff :)
I don't know whether or not Chris and I are thinking of the same MSP granular patch; the one I know of is by some Japanese fellow whose name I don't recall. It's the only granular-based thing I've heard which I think sounds very good, so I also fall into the "granular synthesis sucks" camp, I guess. Conceptually it's an interesting process but I have yet to hear an example of it that would persuade me that it's worth making a product around. Part of the problem is that to really do something interesting with granular synthesis you need to control and change a number of parameters simultaneously over time. Designing a product that does that in a manner comprehensible and useful to the end-user, and still fits into our general vibe would be pretty difficult. We could break with that vibe and go for something more complex (i.e. make something on the scale of Ronin) but since more complex projects are more costly in terms of development time (usually--there are conspicuous counter-examples) we'd probably have to charge more also. That's all viable, but going back to the "granular synthesis sucks" premise it's difficult to make the decision to undertake a more-complex project when there's a lot of evidence that the end result--no matter how carefully designed and crafted--could, well, suck.
I'm not a ring-mod hater; I just find them useless. I think that I know how to do one properly in software, but as Chris said I'm not sure that there's a good biz case for doing so, although I'm not ignoring the fact that it's been mentioned several times in this thread. It will probably end up on his secret "pester Adam about these occasionally until he builds it for me" list, if it's not there already.
--Adam
MXR Pitch Transposer? Love mine, but would like it in software, too...
granular processing is great when combined w/other effects or simply used as ear candy for percussion. i have infinite uses for the granulator in audiomulch and use it in probably every audiomulch patch i've ever made.
sometimes certain sounds just dont work w/it but somethings were just created to be put thru the granulator and i achieve things that i couldn't do any other way. and then puting a reverb/compressor at the end of it all just makes me smile from ear to ear. that's why i think a multi-efect w/a granular aspect would be awesome. something w/variable quantization so you could blur the output to something less rigid.
i'm a sound design junky so this type of thing appeals to me.
anyway- i'm glad i'm not the only person who mentioned "granular" in this thread.
I like what you guys do a lot. I think the cassette emulator is a great idea that fits well with what you do. Also the idea of a stomp box distortion pedal is nice. The fuzz effects you guys have put together have been pretty amazing, but something along the lines of a tubescreamer would be very versatile.
A text to speech plugin. Thats never been done before. Ok. You have Cantor & vocaloid. But thats just cheap ass singing plugins. We need robot voices. Of course with style. Maybe something like a circuit bent speak & spell.
Just an idea.
Interceptor
It occurs to me that several of the more popular suggestions here (tape emulation, multi-tap delay, ADT, maybe even the performance looper) could be combined into one piece. It would be big, and complex, but very useful: Multi-tap delay modules, simple filters, tape emulation, LFOs, and a routing matrix...
sounds like...
Ronin 2...?
Do it. Please, do it. Different configurations would yield lots of different effects from one powerful plug. I imagine the list of presets including everything from simple auto-doubling, straight-up tape saturation, and tape slapback echo, to elaborate filtered multi-tap extravaganzas...and who knows what else.
I know you guys have to re-write Ronin to update it anyway, so why not take it up a couple notches in the process? If you can figure out how to squeeze all those controls into a single (reasonably sized) UI, the hard part will already be done (right Adam? hehe)
c.
How about a vocoder? Right now I use OrangeVocoder but it seems like someone could have made a better one.
As far as MSP granular tools go, Nathan Wolek's work has no equal. Simply wonderful when massaged with a carefully trained hand.
How about a plugin that isn't based on some piece of vintage kit?
1. An AU version of Crane Song's TDM-only "Phoenix." Why they won't do it (I asked), I don't understand. I'll never be able to justify the purchase of a HEDD, so help me out here.
2. Your own takes on Ableton Live's "Resonator" and "Arpeggiator." These are so musically useful, it would be great to have similarly functioning devices, but possessed of quite different sonic characters.
I would buy all of these in a heartbeat.
the resonator is a cool idea too. the ableton one is intersting. the combfilters in audiomulch can do things like this as well but different of course. an AU type resonator w/a twist of somekind would be cool. maybe w/full ADSR envelopes and bandpass filtering or perhaps something trickier like having the input to the resonator trigger a user created waveshape that is then fed into the resonator. then perhaps the waveshape could be a sample/loop and different frequencies at the trigger input could modulate the start point of the wave/sample so you could create repeatable melodic content w/drumloops etc plus pitch modulation of the output?
The Crane Song plug is almost certainly written for Motorola DSP. Porting it to TDM is easy. Porting it to a non-DSP platform (RTAS/AU/VST) is a different matter entirely. The only way you'll see that on native is in PoCo or UAD1 formats.
The resonator idea, while nice and all, has almost no commercial value, unfortunately.
-CR
Gee, I'm glad to see that someone finally suggested a vocoder. Vocoders are near and dear to my heart, and I'd love to do one, but Chris keeps voting it down. I concede that he's right that they're of somewhat limited interest.
--Adam
Transient designer! or maybe a Alesis 3630 (with sidechain function, or else it´s useless)
"I don't know whether or not Chris and I are thinking of the same MSP granular patch; the one I know of is by some Japanese fellow whose name I don't recall. It's the only granular-based thing I've heard which I think sounds very good, -Adam"
Where you refering to sako's granular 2.5???
Nobuyasu Sakonda
http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~nsakonda/maxpatch.html
It is definately one of the best granular implementations I've heard in MSP.
Oh yeah,
Here's my vote:
http://www.cmstransport.com.au/guitarsplus/images/Effect/Image15.jpg
bitchn'
Yes, that's the one. Back in the day, I did a new UI for it, but I don't have the file any more, having deleted any vestige of C'74 products from my computers. I'm sure it's out there somewhere.
-CR
I vote vocorder, too.
I would dig a formant filter that allows you to fade from one vowel to another (control it with an LFO or sample and hold type pseudorandomness). I think it would be cool to transform a sound into something that almost sounds like speech.
Hi!
I vote for a cool retro hardware-inspired vocoder. I think it's needed and it would totally fit with the rest of the plug-ins.
Chris
Another one:
Drawmer Power Gate (DS-501 i think). It has a thing called peak punching that's really cool. I would love to see that replicated in softwear.
Nooooo!!! No vocoder... please! Nothing makes it harder for me to like otherwise good music than when a friggin' vocoder is in it (FWIW, I hate the Heil Talk Box, too).
But you guys did your free distortion so well... I join the vote for an AD take on a killer analog tape saturation/compressor with a few tweakable parameters, and maybe some lo-fi options in it as well (warped record, scratches, tube biasing, etc.). And the ability to take it over the top in true AD style, if wanted.
But mainly, if you can get a refined take on the killer tape saturation/compressor part right... that would be marvelous.
Yep, vocoder gets my vote. I'd love to have a model of an old hardware vocoder to play with, done up in AD stylee.
Perhaps it's a given, but I think there's a major charm in playing with simulations of hardware we're not all that likely to see, let alone own. M-Tron springs to mind. I hear there's a Mellotron in a recording studio/keyboard museum down in Orlando that I could use... bet it would cost me more than buying the plug, tho. Maybe someday. Wonder if theirs has coffee rings on it.
I'll second the DOD Buzz box request, but only if you add a switch to it that generates the sound of low frequency hum on the input that you get when you touch the end of a 1/4" jack. I play with my buzz box for hours just shorting the end to various things, like my cat, and tweaking the knobs. It's freekin' alive.
Pitch delay is also a thought....
resonators have no commerical value? i guess it is kind for a niche audience.
it must be a headscratcher to come w/a new plug idea that is financially viable.
i tend to always look for the weird stuff before looking at eq's or compressors or garden variety been there done that type of FX.
vocoder could be interesting if it had some special features/functions. tracking oscillator, user loaded waveforms or something.
oldmanfury: good times indeed! Reminds me of back when I used to buy unrecognizable stomp boxes for $5 from the pawn shop, patch em together in random order and use a radio shack mic taped to the ceiling as an input source.
another vote for either a "transient designer" or a "tape/analog/saturation" thingy. or both.
i'm off to buy discord2 now....
A Spring Reverb.
I agree with Rozzer; there isn't any proper VST spring reverb emulations out there. I have the one by PSP for CM magazine but it's not quite right.
Besides, it seems like something that Audio Damage would nail perfectly!
How about a vintage ring modulator like the Maestro.
We're obviously getting a lot of suggestions from people that haven't read our previous comments on this thread. I'll attempt to make a compendium and we'll jump to a new post here in a bit.
-CR
one more vote for tape saturation...but with some fun details. applying the idea of izotope vinyl to an all in one tape emulator would be great. it could do subtle saturation for warming up tracks, as well as more extreme things...like pitch and filter warping to emulate some shakey mechanics. i use an old reel to reel from goodwill to rerecord synth tracks and it does wonders for giving things that nostalgic sound. you could even have a switch with settings "studer, otari, vintage reel to reel, sanyo cassette". the idea being that it could be used for subtle adjustments but also has a fun side where you could really take it to some vintage lo-fi extremes.
If you're gonna do it, might as well do it right....
http://www.sequencer.de/pix/ems/ems_vocoder.jpg
Heh.
Adam can make his vocoder as soon as he makes me a ring mod block that works.
-CR
Yeah vocoder gets my vote, the orange thing is limp and the Native instruments vocator-thingy confuses the be-jesus out of me...
..maybe a vocoder with a ring-modulator in it would annoy both of you equally?
The problem with a vocoder is two-fold:
1) You need two inputs. A lot of hosts (specifically non-modular ones) don't allow for this. There is no sidechain in VST.
2) If you don't have a sidechain input, you have to have an on-board synth. We should probably try making a normal synth before we try to tack one on to a vocoder. And we don't do synths.
Come to think of it, those are the same problems a ring mod has.
-CR
While I can understand the reasons you don't want to do a vocoder, I'd love to see you guys take on the VP-330. Can you say "Juanita"?
Yes it would be a challenge.
But all the vocoder VSTs I've used thus far suckass, I bet one that actually sounded like the old hardware vocoders would sell like hotcakes.
Complete with Kraftwerk presets of course.
"Can you say "Juanita"?"
A lot of bands covering that song that I'm not aware of?
Anyways, I suppose I'll grant that a good vocoder would sell like hotcakes. Why people want one is utterly beyond me, since the effect is literally played to death. But that's neither here nor there, I guess. I could certainly make a fine VS-330 UI. It's up to Adam as to whether it can be done or not, and how ridiculous the sidechain would be. AU has a sidechain, so that'd be fine. It's the VST where the problem lies.
-CR
i d be curious to see the result of a "proper" poll done for this.
(i hope tape effect wins)
although i hope you guys come up with something none here has thought of )
here's some More:
wow,
vocoder....ring mod..... really?
for what it's worth, i've noticed that most non-"electronic" music does not make active frequent use of vocoders.
plus, the fact that it's just not gonna happen (it seems).
I think that since we hopefully all still record real instruments that exist in air, also, sometimes, it would be nice (more useful) to have something that would be used more often. AD are better/as good as everything out there, so hell, i want it from them.
(I have dubstation, and it's on almost everything)
compressors are boring, i guess, but i can't think of anything i use more often, except subtractive eq, but that really has been done. A great compressor model would do more for the sound of everyone's (everyone's) mixes than anything else. and inovation could be the selling point.
how about adding the choice of tempo-synched note values to the time settings? (attack, release, maybe include a gate?)
the ability to easily time the dynamics to the track, especially in very small increments, would improve many mixes. maybe give it the option to be sidechained, if possible, or multi-band? (but less important, if you...) add a simple pre and post EQ (maybe two parametric bands and a high and low shelf/pass) to the plug, and we'd be able to shape it further, make it exciting again. motown vocals, fat leads, great snares, etc...
this sort of "basic" plugin is not available at this point. it would still be simple and clean, but new and incredibly useful.
my other big vote would be for a tape saturation emulator, but actually, that could be part of the ultimate compressor thingy.
The ADT is also WAY up there, although different. about the most useful thing possible though, for, y'know, "vibe."
all that said,
why not add one more obnoxious request: make a tel-ray oil can delay that really does it.
yeah. thanks.
whoops, i forgot the All Important wet/dry mix parameter.
four on the floor,
i like your ideas )
I'd also love to see you do an FX version of the EMS Synthi...There's nothing much like it in software (a couple of synth edit freebies that are far from perfect and another synth edit thing at a bout 300 euros!) and I think it would sell very well. Any chance of you doing something like that (should I mention it has a ring mod ;) ?
I dunno if this even is possible, but theoreticly it should be, with audio to gate connections etc. (im no coder, but a modular'er..:) )
Anyway, ive been wanting some kind of efx that it similar to that Basis funktion on the Waldorf PPG. Some kind of effect that randomizes the signals pan positions, and where u can set a few different modes of unison in the end of the chain.
It makes some juicy stereo effect!
There are some nice Chorus'es out there, but nothing like the above mentioned. Its really something different indeed.
Just a thought to join in with the others..
I used to use the vocoders in Cubase all the time - I never used it for singing through, but used if for mashing drums into guitars and vice versa, running it on a send just to add a touch of sizzle and shimmer to things.
Now I use ableton most of the time, and there isn't one. Setting them up in VST was always a pain, though - perhaps if you include internal oscillators (maybe a step-sequenced chord-player?) so it will work as a normal plugin - with the option to route a carrier signal into it if your host can bear it.
And a +1 for a robot voice speaker, with a knobby speech synth engine - a knob for formant shift, length of characters, attack/decay etc - Another interesting thing would be the way to trigger different characters. It could turn MIDI notes into ASCII codes, or you could have a 16-step one-letter-on-each step sequencer?
if you do something like the lofi loop junky, there are some features I would really love to see, mostly inspired by playing with a friend's cocolase (peter b's new box). namely, being able to control the pitch/speed of recording and playback like by changeing the speed on a tape loop. In addition to that, what would make it unique (except for the cocolase) would be if you could send mod inputs into the speed and direction controls. so you could have an lfo controlling whether it was playing forwards or backwards, or controlling the playback or record pitch/speeds.
If it is going to be some kind of looper (which I would definitely be interested in), would you be able to include a waveform display and have loop start and end markers that could be moved in real-time by mouse, lfo, automation?
Also, in addition to forward and reverse, how about a bi-directional option?
I like the transient designer idea or a fatso/distressor plugin
I'd REALLY like to see a good compressor/expander w/ added bp/lp/hp filters and beat finder to get some fun random sounds...it's hard to find a good one that doesn't clip or change pitch...with the added filters, it'd make a fun psuedo-suite that could generate unique results...
just my 2 cents...
-Ben
something wonderful would be a "Dolby Laboratories Dolby A-361 Noise Reduction Unit"
Dolby A
The first commercially successful noise reduction system, provides a 10db noise reduction across most of the audio spectrum. It's basic premise is fairly simple, the audio spectrum is split into four bands and then each is compressed but only the quieter portions and then expanded on playback, the amount/range of expansion is controlled by a modulated high frequency pilot tone recorded onto the tape, this is a controlled narrow band companding rather than the wide band one employed by DBX and due to that there is no real gain in dynamic range when the Dolby Laboratories system is used, it is however more resilient to errors and media quality than DBX type I, but is susceptible to tracking errors. It should be noted that the type A system works fine on low end hardware and can even be used on cassettes, the reason for you not seeing it used there is a question of cost.
They have never been made by anyone afaik.
Hah. Like we could afford to license something from Dolby.
Anyway, see CR's latest blog entry. We've decided and we're already working on it.
--Adam
I'm sure there are other ways to work with Dolby than get the licence ;)
But as you said, your choice is made but I still hope that maybe in the future you guys might cosider this idea ... a best of luck for the next one.
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