# M-Audio fucking sucks... - Site: Analog Industries - Author: Chris Randall - Date: 2007-03-22 - URL: https://analogindustries.com/2007/03/m-audio-fucking-sucks/ No particular reason for this post, other than to reiterate what I've said many times before: if a company is owned by Avid, they are generally of the whack variety, and M-Audio is the whackest of all. Vista has been in beta for a year, and actually released for two months. Time to hop on the driver bus, bitches. Who has a MIDI interface that works in Vista with Cubase 4? Tell me about it, and I will buy it today. ## Comments (35) **maz** (2007-03-22): I'm giong to have to agree with you on the suckage that is anything m-audio. I've sworn them off forever now. I refuse to pay a little less for a product that I know is going to die on me shortly after purchase. Don't even get me on their driver support on OS X. It's been terrible over the years,l absolutely terrible. I've had four of their products over the years and they've all died at the most inopportune times. It's frustrating as all hell. With that being said, I can't recommend an interface for you. I don't use windows :) **synthetic** (2007-03-22): MOTU. The only MIDI interface I would even consider now that Opcode is gone. http://www.motu.com/newsitems/vista-drivers-shipping **Chris Randall** (2007-03-22): I just have this stupid little Midisport 2x2. How much time could it possibly take to write a driver for a 2x2 USB interface? -CR **klemen** (2007-03-22): I had Midisport 2x2, sold it. Never worked reliably under XP (for me at least). I used it to drive Clavia MicroModular, which I also sold. As far as I remember, I had to reinstall drivers for it every single time I wanted to use it. Lame. k **studio nebula** (2007-03-22): I had a MIDIsport 8x8 that never worked correctly under XP, despite several revisions to the driver. It simply did not pass SysEx correctly, for one thing. --Adam **penzoil washington** (2007-03-22): I repeat, some really sharp people have gone nuts for their Sputnik mic, comparing it to Stephen Paul modded U47's, etc. Don't shoot me, I'm just messengerin'....... **fab** (2007-03-22): Also on the OS X side, the things with M-audio midi stuffs have always been a bit weird. I remember that often, after system updates, there were messages on forums regarding fucked up m-audio based set-ups... But I also have to say that usually these issues have been fixed in a short time. **RexRhino** (2007-03-22): I had an old "midiman" midispot 2x2 (the old-school piss yellow one), that I used exclusivly for a MicroModular (like klemen). To be fair, it worked perfectly for use with the MicroModular with Windows 98 I think (I think it was '99 when I was using it, I can't remember perfectly). I also have an Oxygen 8 (although it is packed away in a box, probably never to be used again)... While it did suffer some physical damage from being made out of the cheapest, flimsiest happymeal toy plastic ever, I had no problem with drivers at the time I used it (Maybe back in 2000?). In either case, I purchased the m-audio product out of convience - I wasn't really shopping around. But the impression I get is that they make cheap stuff, right? With it being cheap in every sense of the word. **gashoagie** (2007-03-22): motu is really on top of driver updates for both windows and mac. i use a motu fastlane which is a two by two , and i also use the motu AV 8 x 8 . i have a m audio trigger finger and the thing is so awful to program and the driver and software for it are almost never updated and when they do get around to it it still does not work correctly. **penzoil washington** (2007-03-22): I tried and returned two of their firewire to ADAT boxes, Profire Lightbridge. The first one was completely defective and the second one revealed the ridiculous known issues with this box: 1) hot plug at risk of death to your Profire Lightbridge and possibly your firewire port 2) clocking only works right when you bus power it. I needed 24 channels of lightpipe for my Alpha Link AX, and wound up happily with an RME PCI card. **Chris Randall** (2007-03-22): Yeah, I think I'm gonna pick up a MOTU MIDI Express 128. We'll see how that works out for me. -CR **afreshcupofjoe** (2007-03-22): I've got a couple of m-audio products. Most of them work great and have never given me any probelms. I've had a few issues with my delta 1010, but nothing that would turn me off to their products completely. What do you expect for gear that cheap? Honestly, I've had many more problems with cheap gear from other companies. Especially driver issues. I did a lot of research before I bought my 1010 and one of the main reasons I went with m-audio over others was that they had significantly more stable and bug free drivers for the 1010 than other companies had for similar products. If you want quality, you'd have to spend considerably more money, but if you need it cheap then IMO M-audio is the way to go. **moyashi** (2007-03-22): I also own the Midisport 2x2. Had it tucked-away in a box for some years. Glad I held onto it, since my toddler got frisky with my Korg microKontrol, knocked it off a keyboard tray and killed the rear USB port. Since I abhorred the atrocious physical experience of depressing keys on that controller, I used this as an excuse to unearth the 2x2 for use with an older keyboard, one intended for human fingers. The 2x2, since it is so light, is now gaffer-taped to the inside back wall of my desk. I'm scoring a film now about Morocco, and recently bought the Darbuka soft-instrument. It allows one to work quickly and intuitively and sounds great. It is also, by acquisition of Wizoo, now an M-Audio product. One of the recent Quicktime updates made the GUI disappear, so I called tech support. We got the problem fixed, and they told me that Wizoo had been bought by Avid specifically to get a codebase for more PT soft-instruments, which probably many of you already knew, but I did not. My impression was that few of the original Wizoo *people* actually made the transition as well. I wonder if they'll bother to properly maintain Darbuka...I hope so. It's a niche product, but I really like it. **VividU** (2007-03-22): My 1010 has failed me once in the seven or so years I've had it and my Sputnik sounds just unbelievable (for what I paid). Can't vouch for their other products. Vista driver support is definitely lacking. **joe** (2007-03-23): ive got a 1010lt, 1010, 192, 2496 and a pair of bx5's. all of which ive bought used. i havent had any stability issues with any of them. ill be one of the few to say m-audio has worked out great for me for years. tech support is great (email responses within 48 hours usually.) running the m-powered of pro tools and it seems the only problems ive had are windows related. **valis** (2007-03-23): I have a firewire 410 (which I don't hot plug) and an OLD Midisport 4x4. They're far from the main workhorses here (RME, Creamware on audio & an old Unitor for midi until it recently died) but they have held up ok on XP sp1 & 2. The Midisport build quality is actually decent--mostly metal and quite solid--but I bought it a year or so before they were bought by M-Audio, which was before Avid in turn bought the whole bunch. I don't think I've seen driver updates for my Midisport since 2003 (did Avid 'downsize' the developers?). The 410 is more recent and is crappy build quality, mostly plastic and the rear panel 1/4" i/o panel seems to have had 2 spot-glue points with normal hot glue that came loose rather quickly and it flexes when I plug & unplug. The drivers seem ok and it sounds a bit better than a gaming card so I can't complain terribly as it's used on the least important of 3 computers at my desk (laptop). Got what I paid for it really and its getting used again now that I swapped my FS2 interface for Serato (which has crap ASIO and no wdm/mme). I don't perform 'live' with it as my laptop is really underpowered at the moment. I would agree though with a company that size they definately should be able to at least do some forward thinking driver development, as its mostly a matter of directing enough resources to the OS version(s) in question. Something they surely have enough of. Sadly Avid also owns my 3d software, Softimage, and although I still use it rather than 3dsmax or maya I can say that they haven't really thrived under Avid. Which is unfortunate because they really needed it after MS pretty much screwed them over to gain access to the 'digital media' age. The core technology is still solid in the way that the Environment is still solidly behind the scenes in current versions of Logic, but their development pace is anemic these days and they've lost most of the market that they had in their hey-day of the T2 & Jurassic moneyfests. **quantize** (2007-03-23): MOTU everytime! They build the best stuff hands down...best drivers always! tho i must say despite the rep we have two M-Audio's here as well (FW audio/midi combo things) and the drivers for both windows and mac have been fine for the last couple of years.. **Tom** (2007-03-23): More importantly, their shit is UGLY **tom** (2007-03-23): i have connection dropouts with my m-audio trigger finger... my RME gear is rock solid though. i had a motu which was pretty cool, but RME is even better! **max-cooper** (2007-03-23): Actually, I think it's "wack" not "whack". : ) "Whack" is when you leave a guy in the landfill. **noisegeek** (2007-03-23): Honestly, it's always seemed like the audio industry spoils it's users when it comes to compatibility and updates. When compared to something like the graphics and print industry, where it's not uncommon for OS compatibility updates not to happen at all, the fact that so many companies products are already vista compatible is amazing. As far as M-Audio is concerned, my experience with them has been fair. I've got a trigger finger and an axiom49, and I had some trouble with the axiom driver at first. On the other hand, I've never really considered them to be "Pro" gear. I tend to thing of them as the Lexmark of music companies. You know, the product you buy knowing it'll die in a couple years, but it's so cheap it doesn't matter. **Gibbon** (2007-03-23): The only M-audio gear I've owned is the connectiv audio interface (with Torq dj software) and x-session pro midi controller. I have absolutely zero complaints about either product. You just plug the thing in to your USB and it's ready to go. The enigma software works just fine for the x-session setup but I usually just use the midi learn function in my DAW anyway.. zeros problems. The x-session has just enough features to get the job done without any surperfluous crap (ie. 3 band eq, 3 effects knobs per channel, start/stop, nudge, pitch and volume faders, crossfader and cue and monitor buttons.) It's made of a reasonably good quality grey plastic and the knobs are better than the grey plastic knobs on my 1500 dollar machinedrum. The faceplate is almost 1/8 inch thick! Unless you plan to use the thing as a baseball bat, it's more than durable enough for the price. Connectiv also has just enough features to get the job done, which is the way I like it. The torq application is very nicely designed and I prefer it to the bloated and busy traktor interface. The beat detection algorithm isn't perfect but the time stretching at extreme settings is better than ableton's, in my opinion. I'm not sure about other dj products with control vinyl/cds and how they work but the way you can control torq with just one turntable (in amputate mode) is awesome. My only real complaints are that the headphone jack comes out the front of Connectiv and I had to buy a 90 degree headphone adapter and raise the unit up a bit to put it just behind the x-session. The phono inputs also aren't loud enough to connect a turntable directly, gains knobs on them would have been nice. The x-ponent controller came out two weeks after I bought this stuff and I would probably have bought that one instead since it's basically both units in one, although the price point is too high for what you get. Incidentally, the only 90 degree connector I could find was one from Hosa. The thing would only work only the left channel until I hacked away part of the casing to allow the jack to go in further..hahaha. **inteliko** (2007-03-23): Conektiv is the dongle for Torq, at least PT M-powered can use any M-audio interface for a dongle.... I have a 410 which hasnt had a driver update in a while buts never given me any issues(just me I guess). Torq software I feel beats Ms Pinky's but I feel M-audio shouldve thought not everyone wants that Fisher Price looking dongle for an audio interface AND blending mp3's and some ppl would prefer to use a dj mixer.. M-audio can SMD until they get rid of that crapnektiv and let ppl use the Torq software which seems good( I dont plan on buying it until they ditch the Toys r us dongle!). **Gibbon** (2007-03-23): You still need an audio interface to get the audio out of your computer.. what are you going to use for that instead? The whole point of connectiv is that there is no software to contend with.. no clunky software mixer like most interfaces. You can mix with a hardware mixer all you want.. just plug Connectiv into a mixer. You can mix the audio from two turntables in the computer IF you want, along with the mp3s in Torq, you can also mix externally and can control the soft with turntables.. there's many combinations and there's nothing to configure.. simply twist the two big knobs on the top to do it. The appeal is the simplicity.. there are two ways around any problem.. complicate or simplify. Given that most daws/software allow you to route audio internally, then the interface includes a software mixer of it's own (and external controls) which are then routed through various other hardware/mixers externally.. i'm not surprised that pure crap comes out the end 95% of the time. **inteliko** (2007-03-23): Reading your prev post b4 mine I noticed you have no complaints with it, however I have an existing audio interface and a dj mixer that Im happy with and I dont want replaced, so the Conectiv interface is nothing for a dongle for the software in my case. I can see myself likeing the Torq software though in comparison to Ms. Pinky. I have a 410, its cool, its not high end or anything gives me no probs. M-audio can still SMD, they offer m-powered PT the option to use the software with just about if not all m-audio interfaces, they should do this with Torq also. **afreshcupofjoe** (2007-03-23): Quote Tom: >>More importantly, their shit is UGLY I'd have to agree with you there. Ugly as hell. Just about every single product. **straechav** (2007-03-23): I don't use Vista, so I am slightly off topic. But there's a hole in your theory about Avid. Softimage is owned by Avid, and Softimage XSI is by far the best 3D complete modelling/rendering/ect package there is, and I've used pretty much all of them. There are better modellers around (like Silo) but as a whole XSI takes the cake. Of course, that's graphics software, not music software... I agree on M-Audio. Suck. Suck. Suck. **DD** (2007-03-23): My M-Audio Audiophile shut down my entire MIDI system about a year after I got it. I reinstalled everything on my computer, reformatted the hard drive, and finally went file by file in the Library before I isolated the problem - M-Audio's MIDI driver plugin. Which I wasn't even using. M-Audio does not play nice with OSX. I can't even let my computer go to sleep when it's plugged in. Useless piece of junk. But it's what I have right now. So many things to buy... **giantm** (2007-03-23): My question is: What makes this interface so fancy that the USB class driver for MIDI I/O doesn't work. **Chris Randall** (2007-03-23): That's an excellent question. I suppose the answer is "the firmware was written before there was such a thing," but I have no way of knowing. In any case, I'm ordering the MOTU in about 10 minutes; hopefully my problems will be solved when it arrives. -CR **peterkirn** (2007-03-24): Not to ask a dumb question, Chris, but I assume you've tried the old XP driver? Many of them are working for me in Vista. Not all, though, so I'm guessing you've tried and failed. MIDI drivers ... MOTU, Edirol both should work. I was never a big fan of M-Audio's MIDI interfaces to begin with, to be honest. But yes, it's weird with no additional functionality that they wouldn't make this class-compliant. Who knows. Incidentally, I'm told by Microsoft that class-compliant drivers and MIDI in general are unchanged in Vista. It's only the installer that should matter. **Chris Randall** (2007-03-24): The Midisport series predates the class-compliant feature. It needs a from-scratch driver. The XP drivers don't work. (Vista doesn't recognize them as drivers at all.) For what it's worth, all my other hardware works in Vista, be it with a Vista driver or with an XP driver. This is the only thing. It's all a moot point, as I bought the MOTU rackmount box; it'll be here on Monday. -CR **mattedj** (2007-03-25): The thing that is annoying me is the drivers being behind schedule. Their XP USB drivers for the Axiom 49 aren't being acknowledged in Reason 3...so all those presets that Reason has setup aren't available. When the frig are they going to get busy? I guess I have no exact opinion in M Audio...I liked the Omni Studio and used it for years. I actually made a mistake (I feel), by giving it up for a Motu firewire breakout box. I have more glitches and anomalies on the MOTU than I ever had on Omni Studio...and the ASIO performace ain't any better. M audio definitely feels 'cheaper', but it costs less to so I don know. **valis** (2007-03-25): It always seemed to me that MOTU was just the M-Audio for the "professional" (in the same way that the modern Emu cards are "professional"). Sales based largely on marketing and having solid distribution, and no real stellar or overly negative features either way. Anyway this thread has me thinking back to something I thought of a few years ago. With the demise of most (all?) of the attempts at using timestamped drivers to lock people into their interface & sequencer, it seems that MIDI interfaces have stagnated and are mostly disappearing as the 'prosumer' & hobbyist market moves towards usb connection controlers which may or may not have additional midi ports (and/or small firewire interfaces which toss them into the package). While MIDI is hardly new so it's no surprise there hasn't been any major innovation, it's becoming harder & harder to find 4 & 8 port devices. I had originally sat down to buy an 8 port a few years ago when my Unitor died, and it occurs to me that not finding anything truly appealing has led me to use this Midisport on my main DAW (where I never intended to have it) ever since. Since I use all 4 ports on my Midisport, the port on my RME and even an old Sblive with kx drivers to connect to the laptop's midi i/o, I really ought to use this opportunity to get something. **Marc Mitchell** (2007-03-31): without wanting to get shot down in flames here... vista is just about the best every apple advert every made.. regardless of the company or issue , its very unsuprising that a PC & vista ( or any microsoft sub creative product or OS ) if having problems. you can blame M-audio if you want but its not just them.. Microsoft got away with it with windows when there were only a few thousand of us mac users thinking "WTF"... but not twice :) M-Audio "rock" on the apples. im really not trying to ofend, i luv this site & the info, but get a life, get a mac... then get on with driving the car rather then F**cking about under the Hood for a month b4 the bitch will even start. motu / mac user sinse 84, 20 years of releaseing records all over the world & never had an issue like this. regards in music love in life Marc Mitchell