An Open Letter To Jona Bechtolt...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
Dear Jona:
While it was kind of you to write me personally expounding on your comments in the previous post, I’m afraid I take issue with some of the points you made. I’ve chosen to print my thoughts publicly, both for the theraputic value, and in the hopes that future generations will find some small value in this missive.
First things first. I will say up front that I do not accept your apology. I do appreciate the fact that you requested we send you a bill for the products you stole from us, but we won’t be doing that either. I’ll get to the “why” of that towards the end, so you have that to look forward to.
Anyhow, since this is an open letter, Jona, I have to provide the backstory for the people just joining us; I realize you already know all this stuff, but it’s important for posterity. You, in your role as the leader of the group Yacht gave an interview to Waferbaby in which you stated that you willfully and happily used cracked software, and specifically Audio Damage plug-ins, to aid in your musical endeavors. Since I raised a certain (and I believe justifiable) objection to that in the previous entry, you or Waferbaby edited that interview. Of course, Google cached the un-edited one, and I grabbed a PDF, which interested parties can read here.
So, now that everybody knows where things stand, we can get on with our discussion. I will set aside the obvious and annoying hypocrisy of the whole light and happy rainbows trip you’re on, because I’m not interested in discussing the relative merits of the genre in which you choose to express your creativity. In that interview, you essentially gloat over the fact that most all of the software you use to make music is pirated. Leaving aside the ethics of that for a moment, let’s address the wisdom or lack thereof about gloating in public about committing a crime. While it may be the charge of the Hippy Dippy Light Brigade that information wants to be free, etc., it usually isn’t free. Just because it feels free doesn’t change the fact.
I realize that you’re young, and perhaps a bit stunned by the fact that someone might take offense to your words or actions, but know this: if someone creates something, and chooses to hang a price tag on that thing, if you decide to take said thing without paying for it, you are de facto a thief. There’s really no grey area. People are welcome to talk (or even yell, wave their arms, and run in circles) about changing things, leveling the playing field, rolling around in the fields of egalitarian bliss, but bad luck, you live in the United States of America, which is a capitalist nation. As such, most people that create things choose to charge for them, given the option to do so.
Since a metaphor is usually called for at this point, I’ll give it my best shot. I don’t suppose you walk in to White Hen Pantry and steal candy bars, do you? It’s really not that much harder to steal a candy bar than it is to steal a plug-in. What makes that candy bar more real than a copy of Dubstation? The threat of immediate repercussions? If Dubstation was a real hardware unit instead of a group of ones and zeros arranged in a meaningful fashion, would you walk in to Guitar Center and slip it in to your pocket when nobody was looking? Interestingly, the penalty, should you be caught taking a candy bar, is far less than getting caught stealing software. That alone should give one pause. However, I’m far from naive, and I know just as well as you do that as long as someone doesn’t, say, put a record of their actions in a public medium, they’re not going to get caught taking the software.
Just so we’re clear, Audio Damage, Inc. is not going to sue you, or file a complaint with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s department. We would be well within our rights to do either or both, and most other software companies certainly would do so. In actual fact, I believe you do have a couple summonses to look forward to from some of the other companies you mentioned in your thoughtless rambling. But that’s not my concern.
My true desire is to show you that the group of ones and zeros you took from us, and others, are meaningful creations. Adam and I put months, and in some cases, years of work in to those plug-ins. They are very real to us, and selling them is how we put a roof over our heads and keep our heat on and our refrigerators full. Is Dubstation (or Kombinat, Reverence, and BigSeq, the other plug-ins you stole from us) helping you make music? That is actual real time that Adam and I spent coding, modelling, designing, porting, testing, and selling. I sat in the second bedroom of my rented house (which is, I’ll mention, roughly 30 miles from yours) and worked on the design of Dubstation. Adam sat in the basement of his house in Boulder and turned my idea in to a VST and an AudioUnit. Following that line of logic to its obvious conclusion, Adam and I spent time making something, and put what we thought was an extremely reasonable price tag on our time, in the hopes that others would see our creation and think that our time was useful, and would help improve their own creations. While it is somewhat unsavory to insist on payment for our creation, we have to do so in order to enable the act of creation in and of itself.
If you choose to use what we make without compensating us for our time, we’ll grant that there’s very little we can do about it. (Unless, of course, you say in a public medium that you’ve done so. Which, I’ll mention again, you most assuredly did.) However, know this: wrong is wrong. If you have to ask whether you’re a bad person or not, that alone should be all the answer you need. We are willing to accept piracy as a fact of life in the business we’re in. We’ve never done more than pay lip service to copy protection, and we’ve tried to put a value on the product of our creativity that makes that product easily attainable, to the point where piracy simply isn’t worth the trouble.
In conclusion, I promised to tell you why we wouldn’t be sending you a bill. On the one hand, I’m happy with the fact that you’re beginning to grasp that your words and actions have meaning, and therefor value, which essentially puts you in the same boat as Adam and I. On the other hand, when you justify your actions with the old standby “well, everyone else is doin’ it” then you mark yourself as a follower, not a leader. If you want to be a leader, your example has to be righteous, not petty.
So we won’t send you a bill, but know this: you’ll end up paying for our software one way or another. I imagine you’ll want to book a show at a club where I’m friends with the owner, and you’ll need that date to wheel part of a run. But that owner will know that you’re not to be trusted, so he’ll pass on the date. Or you’ll want to license one of your tracks on an episode of television, but the music supervisor has a 15-year relationship with me, and he values that more than he needs your song. Or you’ll finally get an interview with that magazine that will put you in front of the kind of people you need to be in front of, but come to find out Audio Damage spends $1500 a month advertising in that magazine, and that company needs our $1500 more than it needs to fill column inches with your pondering out loud whether you’re a bad person or not.
I am sorry that the Google footprint of this site is roughly 1000 times that of your name alone, and thus this will be the first thing that comes up whenever anyone searches your name directly, but there’s nothing I can do about that. I hope this has been a valuable lesson to you, and food for thought to others. Thanks for taking the time to expand on your original comments, and I look forward to your reply. Just so you’re aware, if you reply to me privately, I will absolutely post that reply verbatim here, so you might as well just put it in the comments of this post.
105 comments
I have to admit, I've used (and still sometimes use) a fair amount of pirated software. At first I trotted out the 'poor student' excuse. Then it was the 'hobbyist' excuse. Then the 'lazy cheap asshole who should get his shit together' excuse. I've come to the point where all my music software is paid for or free to begin with. Makes me feel good and keeps things streamlined.
My mindset, excuses aside, was a bit damn-the-man. 'Hey, these are big corporations; they don't need my money'. That kind of horseshit. But even then I could never entertain the idea of stealing from small, independent online retailers. Particularly not if they had good prices and a good attitude. At that point, you're not 'bringin' down the system, man!' anymore. You're part of the problem.
For the record, I'm 27 years old.
vae: I agree with the conclusions you arrive at (enumerated as 1) and 2) in your post), so in the end you and I are on the same page. I would like to make one pragmatic observation, though, since the physical-vs.-virtual debate does tend to come up in discussions like this. I also agree that the assertion used by people such as the RIAA that every download equals a lost sale is a fallacy.
The pragmatic observation is this: the law is the law, and the law is quite clear about using pirated software. (See my comment on page 5 of the previous thread if you missed it.) Whether there is a philosophical or commercial difference between stealing a physical object and stealing a software entity is ultimately a point of little significance, unless you want to make a career out of attempting to change the copyright laws of this country and others. Audio Damage, Inc. is a commercial entity based in the United States and hence is bound by--and protected by--the laws of the United States. Whether or not we agree with all of these laws is ultimately irrelevant to the operation of the company.
So, does this attitude mean I've Sold Out and I'm Part Of The System? Maybe so. Maybe that's the difference between being under 30 and over 40. One of the great things about the U.S. is that its citizens are free to critique their country and its laws. (Or at least they used to be. We'll be working our way back towards those ideals over the next 4 or so years.) Maybe the issue of physical vs. virtual theft needs to be re-examined, maybe not. I'm neither a lawyer nor a philosopher. I do know, though, that flaunting piracy in public is not going to bolster anyone's case.
--Adam
As a former police officer, I saw Jona's type all the time. They're very sorry for what they did...once they'd been caught.
He's the kind of person that hates all lawyers, except his lawyer. He hates the government, until it "owes" him something. He hates the police, until he needs one to save his ass. He hates corporations (like AD even though it's two people) because they charge for things that should be free, yet his music is for sale on Itunes. People should gladly pay him for his efforts because, well, because it's different when it's him! He's pro-rainbow!
Is everyone a pirate? No Jona they aren't. All my money goes to medical bills right now, so I can't buy even one AD plug-in. I really want a couple of them and I even know where to go get the pirated copies, but I'll wait until I can pay for them. Not because I have to but because I want to. Anyone providing a valuable product or service should be paid for their efforts or those providers will disappear.
Wow...I am speechless. Chris, your articulation is refreshing. I have been reading this blog for sometime, never posted...mainly because I really enjoy your humor, and while this WAS funny, in the matter of fact way you presented your reply...the subject of why you wrote it is not. I agree with bird...not everyone is a pirate, and the ones that are I don't think are quite as dense as you. I have never come across such a blatant confession to piracy...or anything like it.
i've read things that yacht (jona bechtolt) has written before where he talks about using cracked versions of Live and the thing that strikes me as insane is that he is good friends with fellow Oregon indie software developers Panic ( makers of transmit, coda, candybar ). what must they think of all of this? i am sure that they would be pretty bummed to read an interview with someone basically bragging about ripping off their products.
here's a quote from his web site...
( http://www.teamyacht.com/archives/000231.html )
" I use pirated software. I'll be the first to admit that. The certain audio software of my choice has been historically hard to crack and has been sort of an unreliable program to use due to its "I could stop working for you at any time" nature. They are smart over there in Germany. No one knows why it stops working. No one knows how. It's not calling home to the internet and shutting itself off. It's not creating an invisible file that tells it to stop working. It's not even embedding some sort of copyright violation code into the song files... I don't know what it's doing, but it stinks. Luckily I have two computers and they are Apple computers. The iBook has never had a problem with the audio software (knock on wood, literally), so I put it in FireWire target mode and selected it as the startup disk for the iMac. Totally weird; the iMac uses its own CPU, RAM, screen, keyboard, mouse, etc., but uses the iBook's hard drive. Well, it worked. We finished the album with this weird setup and I promised myself that one day, when I can afford it, I'll give those smart Germans $500 for their fancy software."
it's hard to feel bad for the guy.
Hmm. I didn't read the original version of the interview before I posted on the last thread, or I probably wouldn't have been so nice.
Also, according to Wikipedia, he's not that young, either. Only a couple years younger than me, in fact. I think that's already a fair bit past the usual range where I'm inclined to cut young guys slack for their inherent tendency to act like complete fucking idiots.
Fricken Pirates.
Hey, I heard the crackers and pirates are the student IT guys who streamline and bulletproof porno site's credit card service for organised crime bosses and then, in the off-time (which is about 90% of the time) they use the supercomputers their bosses supplied them to crack code for stuff they're interested in, like music and video software. And they charge the bosses time 100% for the 10% they actually work for. How would the boss know they're goofing off? Gee, just like the real world, huh?
A totally moral-free zone.
So, if this is not true, could someone explain the true motivation of these secretive prcks?
Also, one IT head told me these crackers plant viruses in the code because they're totally antisocial and dysfunctional. And planting viruses one of their 'trade mark' activities because they really don't care about the end user.
That's all I have to say about piracy.
From a proud 1s and 0s owner of Cubase 4 and Komplete 5 and Ueberschall and Korg.
All the best Chris.
Standing ovations. A very well written article.
@space_monkey: he's 29, which seems pretty young to a MAWG like me. But you're right in as much as "old enough to know better" would be an applicable phrase, should someone choose to apply it.
Personally, I've seen way older people (including myself) do way stupider things, so I don't really think the age part has much significance. He's in that special place where he's a kind of famous, but not _actually_ famous, like Bill Leeb or me. We're not household names, but in the circles we travel in, we're high on the totem pole. So it _seems_ like we're famous, to ourselves when we look in the mirror.
This has the effect of amplifying our own actions in our heads. I feel I'm just as important as Jona thinks he feels. I, however, had probably done about 5,000 more interviews than him by the time I was his age, so I took my knocks and learned my lessons about what someone can say in print (and by print I mean real printy print and not the webtubes) and on the radio. Things that don't seem like a big deal _really_ don't seem like a big deal, and things we take seriously we _really_ take seriously.
Such is the life of the self-obsessed. This industry is a magnet for the type, and since I am one, I know it when I see it. "Look at how handsome and charming I am. Isn't that other guy so not handsome or charming?" The age-old pissing match between alpha males; different names, different times, but we're all just marking trees when you get down to it.
-CR
congratz on five years and a awesome come back to that jerk. I was sorta into his music NOT THE SCENE. I pay for my plug ins and hardware even if it ends up being not so useful (never the AD ones though usefull and fun ) if i dont use it that much but jeez i dont know if i could listen to it much more after that rant of "hey music should be free" sorry kid it costs money because people put hard work into these albums and or plug ins.
good job yet again chris
Tree-markers!?
Ha ha ha
All the best guys.
well played, sir. well played.
When I was younger, I was more prone to engage in flagrant, obvious, and dangerous idiocy. Over, time, rather like a fine wine matures, I have started gravitating towards more subtle and insidious forms of idiocy, but every now and then I have a flashback to the old days. I'm a lot harder on myself when I do really stupid shit now, though, and I think I can honestly say I've got better sense than I had even just a few years ago.
What strikes me about his attitude is not so much the idiocy, which is a part of our heritage as mostly-bald monkeys who tend to be just smart enough to enact our stupidity on a far grander scale than our hairier and allegedly less intelligent cousins, but his immaturity and refusal to accept responsibility, which would be obnoxious, but understandable, in a kid, but a guy my age should have grown out of it.
(Are there too many subordinate clauses in that sentence?
I suspect that, rather like "Am I a bed person for X?" The answer is implicit in the question.)
I have to admit, I've used (and still sometimes use) a fair amount of pirated software. At first I trotted out the 'poor student' excuse. Then it was the 'hobbyist' excuse. Then the 'lazy cheap asshole who should get his shit together' excuse. I've come to the point where all my music software is paid for or free to begin with. Makes me feel good and keeps things streamlined.
My mindset, excuses aside, was a bit damn-the-man. 'Hey, these are big corporations; they don't need my money'. That kind of horseshit. But even then I could never entertain the idea of stealing from small, independent online retailers. Particularly not if they had good prices and a good attitude. At that point, you're not 'bringin' down the system, man!' anymore. You're part of the problem.
For the record, I'm 27 years old.
A very well written statement, karma will ebite these wanna be hippies soon.
I've used a lot of pirated software, to the point I didn't know exactly what instruments or effects were in my vst folder. Then I realized that I had to commit to my work, I had to chose the software to use. Now I also have a license of Toast (if you know what I mean). I can barely make a living from music but I decided to do the things the way they had to be done. Just because you can easely get whatever piece of software you want that doesn't make it right to do, non the less cool.
The guy is a thief, a stupid one.
Great post, agree completely on most points. There's one thing that kind of always irks me in arguments like these though, and you all are welcome to disagree or flame me, but here goes:
"Since a metaphor is usually called for at this point, I'll give it my best shot. I don't suppose you walk in to White Hen Pantry and steal candy bars, do you? It's really not that much harder to steal a candy bar than it is to steal a plug-in. What makes that candy bar more real than a copy of Dubstation?"
The fact that getting a warez Dubstation "only" means a lost sale, possibly not even that if it's a situation where someone is downloading something he wouldn't buy in the first place (pirating is so easy that some people just download tons of shit they'll never even use). Stealing a candy bar or a hardware FX pedal also means that there's one less unit to sell to someone else, de facto. You don't have to produce a new copy of Dubstation for every single pirate who downloads it illegally, but Guitard Center has to buy a new effects pedal (and the manufacturer has to make a new one) for every single guitard who steals one. And someone else than the thief has to actually pay for the loss.
That's why I don't think the word "stealing" means the same in the two cases even though both situations involve illegal action: in the first case you aren't compensating the manufacturer for the R&D work done, so the manufacturer isn't getting their well-deserved money ... whereas in the second case you're also forcing the manufacturer to spend some of their resources on manufacturing a new unit, so the manufacturer (or retailer) actually loses money. And maybe someone else who would've bought that pedal couldn't get it because it was out of stock, so it would potentially be another lost sale.
I and probably many others of similar age have used illegal copies of software in the past and aren't proud of it... like mazacultura, I went fully legit at some point when I actually got any spare money to buy software with. That's another difference between stealing a tangible product and pirating software - someone who steals a guitar pedal probably won't be like "oh sorry, I stole this pedal from you, here's the money", if only because paying for it would be admitting that you stole it in the first place and getting to major trouble... Whereas I've paid for all the software I use, a sizeable portion of which I used illegal copies of before, and it's been easier to "come to my senses" since I haven't had to admit that I've used pirated copies in the first place. That doesn't "justify" using pirated software and neither does my previous point, but they still illustrate the difference between stealing and piracy IMO.
In any case, I don't see hobbyist comprehensive school / high school kids warezing stuff as a major problem... It's just that:
1) If you use warez, please don't brag about it, promote it, mail the developers support questions and waste their time, or ask around for help on teh forums on the interwebs. If you use an illegal copy, you're on your own and don't deserve support of any kind. Please be quiet about what you are doing - you're not Robin Hood, but simply someone who isn't paying the developers what they deserve. There are no foolproof justifications for why it would be Right. If you think information wants to be free then just contribute to that flow with your own creative output and don't force others to accept that fact.
2) If you start releasing stuff, making a living, earning by using the software, PLEASE don't be an asshole, be decent and buy what you use.
Hey anyone got any Yacht rapidshare links or torrents?
I need a LAFF
(kidding of course, i dont wanna hear it)
and Vae, I really think you need to re-examine that logic...a lost sale of any kind affects the viability of any business, whether it's bits, bytes or hardware...This really is one of those issues that is easily obfuscated by attempts to make finer distinctions.
quantize,
Yes, it does, I wasn't arguing against that. If someone illegally downloads a product he would have bought (if it wasn't available illegally, if his/her values were different, whatever reason applicable), it means that the developer has just lost a sale, gets less revenue, and consequently has less money for living, continuing the business, making new cool shit and supporting old products. That should be clear to everyone, a lost sale is a lost sale and it hurts developers.
I was simply pointing out that saying piracy is equal to stealing physical objects is kind of dangerous since in the case of piracy it is a matter of a possible lost sale, and in the case of theft it is definitely a matter of having one less unit of the product to sell in the first place. If you steal a car from a car shop / factory, someone is going to lose a lot of money to replace that car with a new one to sell and someone isn't getting his new car as fast. If you download an illegal copy of 3D Studio Max (which I remember costing about as much as a car at some point in the past), the developer has lost a sale, but still has the same amount of 3DS Max copies in stock to sell.
In case someone is not really interested in driving a car, the car manufacturer has still lost money, whereas in the case of a stupid casual pirate downloading something he never uses and would never even think of buying, nobody has lost anything. And, as an addition, like I said, in my experience with people I've met it appears to be easier to stop piracy and buy legal licenses of what you've previously used illegally, than to suddenly decide to go pay for that car / guitar pedal you've stolen, so there is a larger possibility that the developers will get their well-deserved money, just later than they should. Not that it should be encouraged to "try before you buy" using warez for a year, or it would be any justification for downloading illegal software in the first place.
I don't know if I can stress it any better or make it clearer: what I say is NOT in any way a justification for piracy and there's none that would stand closer examination. What I say does NOT mean piracy is harmless. What I say is just that stealing a fx pedal and downloading an illegal copy of Dubstation aren't the same thing, as far as both the thief, the manufacturer and the retailer are concerned. They're both "wrong" but still different kinds of "wrong" with different issues.
i think there are 2 discussions going on. the first one is whether piracy is wrong or right. most here would agree it's wrong. the second is in what way it's wrong. the current legal system has a hard time dealing with non-physical goods that can be copied and distributed. it's not a good, it's not a service. it's stealing alright, but not as we know it. the second discussion is definitely interesting, but it should never obscure the first discussion.
Excellent post.
He mentioned that working on Yacht was his full-time gig. When you're making money off of music there's no excuse not paying for the tools. It's just wrong.
There is literally no excuse for pirating music software. Some developers are indeed fools and monopolists, but that doesn't make it OK to steal from them.
The fact is, if you can't make a good album using exclusively, legitimately, FREE software, you have no talent. Beyond that you have the option of paying people you like for more stuff, or ignoring the work of people you dislike.
That was a thoroughly enjoyable post...
Oh btw Jona, LCD Soundsystem and !!! called and said they *would* be sending a bill for Yacht attempting to use their sound...
I almost want to pity Yacht, feebly trying to defend himself in the face of such eloquent rhetorical skill. Almost... if he wasn't such a clear idiot (sort of like those teens who video tape their crime spree and post it on YouTube for the police to use later).
Although I am neither hippy nor dippy (and being a charter member of the Dark Brigade... we charge far less ;) I always get ruffled when people trot out the "information wants to be free" slogan in issues of piracy. First, software is a tool, not information. Free information is when they let you download the manual before you buy the product. Second, the meaning of the phrase has nothing to do with "free" in a capitalist context. This is "free" as in "unfettered access"... as in, "the software isn't insanely tied to a particular brand of hardware you didn't want or need to buy in the first place." (*cough* Digidesign *cough*) Unfettered access does NOT mean you don't pay the price of admission, just that we won't refuse you entry for being a complete git.
But what we really want to know is: if Dubstation was a candy bar, what kind of candy bar would it be? (and I'm trying really hard not to say "chock full o' nuts")
I am the proud owner of so far ONE Audio Damage product, Dr. Device. I'd have more, but I can't decide between about four of them. I got Dr. Device specifically because I'm a fool for animated GUIs and because it's hard wired to work with my KP3. The day I got it, however, I couldn't get it to work with my KP3 -- don't remember why -- so I emailed the support department (I didn't know much about AD at the time) and asked. And I mean it must have been 15 minutes later that I get a short but complete reply from Chris telling me exactly what I was doing wrong and how to make it go.
So I think the thing for me is this. Now that I use a ton of software, both for music which is a hobby, as well as for the illustration and design I do, which is my living, made by people pretty much like me and sold for $49, $15, $129, that makes my hobby/job easier and more creative, and my day generally better, I can't find any legitimate reason to steal the sh*t. There was a time when 99% of what was on my Mac was made by Apple, Adobe or Microsoft and for the life of me I couldn't get anyone to respond to emails or pick up the phone to tell me what to fix. But this is a different day. So now that it's EASIER to pirate and download stuff that isn't yours, there is more reason NOT to. And for that matter, I'm not just talking about the Audio Damages and Panics out there. I like being writing to Ableton at 2am to ask some dumb question and getting a reply in an hour. And then I fall asleep, knowing that I am a good and honest man.
As others have said, if it's (legit) free you want, that's pretty easy to find. Buy a single copy of Computer Music magazine and you have all the reverbs and synths and samples you might ever need.
Foolish Yacht.
The thing that always slays me about this "sticking it to the man" justifications for ripping off audio production software, is that 90% of the companies were talking about are all more or less independent shops. Hate on IKMultimedia or NI all you want, but it's not like we're talking about GM or GE here. In cases like AI (or Uh-e, or any other number of smaller, web-based shops), it's basically skimming from the till at the cool record shop down the street you'd be really bummed if they closed.
vae: I agree with the conclusions you arrive at (enumerated as 1) and 2) in your post), so in the end you and I are on the same page. I would like to make one pragmatic observation, though, since the physical-vs.-virtual debate does tend to come up in discussions like this. I also agree that the assertion used by people such as the RIAA that every download equals a lost sale is a fallacy.
The pragmatic observation is this: the law is the law, and the law is quite clear about using pirated software. (See my comment on page 5 of the previous thread if you missed it.) Whether there is a philosophical or commercial difference between stealing a physical object and stealing a software entity is ultimately a point of little significance, unless you want to make a career out of attempting to change the copyright laws of this country and others. Audio Damage, Inc. is a commercial entity based in the United States and hence is bound by--and protected by--the laws of the United States. Whether or not we agree with all of these laws is ultimately irrelevant to the operation of the company.
So, does this attitude mean I've Sold Out and I'm Part Of The System? Maybe so. Maybe that's the difference between being under 30 and over 40. One of the great things about the U.S. is that its citizens are free to critique their country and its laws. (Or at least they used to be. We'll be working our way back towards those ideals over the next 4 or so years.) Maybe the issue of physical vs. virtual theft needs to be re-examined, maybe not. I'm neither a lawyer nor a philosopher. I do know, though, that flaunting piracy in public is not going to bolster anyone's case.
--Adam
The most profound statement made so far in the comments from this excellent post came from Quantize:
"This really is one of those issues that is easily obfuscated by attempts to make finer distinctions."
I'm going to print that again in all caps, for emphasis.
THIS REALLY IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT IS EASILY OBFUSCATED BY ATTEMPTS TO MAKE FINER DISTINCTIONS.
Please read it again and again. It's heavy and true.
The issue is not nearly as complex or nuanced or post-modern or abstract as some are making it out to be. It's bone simple.
Shhh... don't make quasi-utopian, equivocating speeches... Shhh!! Quiet down, dum dum. Don't speak. Replace every rationalizing piece of bullshit with just beautiful silence. Hush. You no talk now. There. There we go. See how nice that is?
OK, here's how it works:
It's wrong. It's tacky. Don't do it. Be a person.
Make that a mantra.
It's wrong. It's tacky. Don't do it. Be a person.
Chant it four times every morning.
I hope that the name Jona Becholt becomes shorthand slang for brazen, thieving asshole.
I really don't care which part of speech it supplants... noun, verb, adjective. Language is elastic and freeeeeeeee...
Honestly I think you're being a bit of a dick. Heavy handedly throwing your music biz creds in front of a kid saying you are going to ruin any chances of possible music career for him because he defaulted paying you $40.... "You'll never work in this town again kid." - Bullshit.
I understand you're pissed off but the kid apologized, offered to pay for the products, and gave his honest opinion as to why he made the comments. You may not like his reasoning but that's neither here nor there. He gave his opinion and you reacted by not even letting him attempt to pay.
I hope all those who read this blog and have illegally downloaded AD products now realize that once you piss of Chris there's no going back. Don't even bother to try and do the right thing (as Chris see's it) because you won't get any love. And in fact by coming clean about it you might be up for some public humiliation and personal threats from the Don himself.
Personally I think you dealt with this incorrectly. I think a common theme with downloaders is that as they get older and find out what products they actually use on a daily basis they tend to want to support those developers and go legit. They buy things from Yamaha/Digidesign that come with sequencing software. They realize that having every VST ever is actually unproductive and paying for a few useful products and becoming a user member of that group is much more productive. They search the many fantastically useful open source and free products and realize that while some people demand payment other equally talented (but less marketed) programmers are developing software that equals and sometimes surpasses the functionality of payed software. Or they start to look toward hardware solutions.
I think you could have recognized this progression in Yatch and gave him the benefit of doubt. Possibly even using this as a way to encourage others to recognize this motivation in themselves and offer a new way for them to pay for their cracked products. For example pay for the cracked products you use and we'll give you our new super fancy ultra desirable vst for 1/2 price. Setting them up to pay for future products and allowing them to become a legit part of the user community. Possibly even offering a form of AD membership like $25 every 4 months and they can have access to all past and future products for as long as they sustain membership subscription. In this way the initial outlay for going legit is only $25 dollars and look at all the fabulous musically inventive toys they can get for only $25. All you'd need is 1000 people and you have a healthy living. Kind of like the 1000 true fans idea for independent software developers.
I think you have to incentivize people to your way of thinking. No point in preaching to the converted whilst lambasting those who are making the transition.
And again I find myself agreeing with beauty pill.
I think part of the confusion about "sticking it to the man"
comes from the discussion surrounding musical (and other) creativity and copyright infringements.
However, how the argument that music containing samples could and maybe should be considered derivative rather then outright theft can be confused with "I don't have to pay for this software cos like yea it should be free like " is beyond me.
http://www.goodcopybadcopy.net/
Nicely put. What a moron.
Sorry to change subject to BS2 - but I have a question about the presets. I assume presets from BS1 is not compatible with BS2 - correct? I have a memory of you guys saying BS2 was rewritten from scratch.
I think this all depends on who you want respect from.
Do you want the respect of the people who cracked the software for you to use without paying? Do you want the respect of a crowd that thinks that it's important to creative expression to "stick it to the man"?
Do you want the respect of the people who made the software?
Do you want the respect of people whose output is good enough that they can EASILY afford any paltry amount a software developer (let alone AD, good god, their price to value ratio is insane) needs to allow them to make the product?
At some point, if you really want to impress me, all this piracy shit just isn't an issue. Not to a successful creative artist... if a successful artist needs a piece of gear or a plug, you buy it, because people are showing you THEIR respect by giving you money... and therefore you have the money to return the favor by showing your respect to the developer, creator, whatever.
In other words, if you're proud of resorting to piracy because you can't afford the gear, it means you operate at a certain level. As a matter of fact, it sort of defines the level at which you work.
"Oh, you still using a pirated copy of Live and Logic? Yeah, I got licenses for both of those from the money we got playing that festival... neither's as expensive as a good compressor... someday you'll be up here with us, man, keep chugging."'
@FLASH FREDDY: to say that I strongly disagree with you is to put it mildly. There are only two options less severe than the route I chose. One is to accept his offer, as you pointed out, and the other is to do nothing. All other routes open to me negatively impact our business. I'll enumerate them quickly, although even thinking about the subject in passing would show the logical courses of action.
1 - I do an Eric Barbour-style rant. This is the most common result of something like this in our corner of the music industry. People that make software for a living take a fairly dim view of people that use that software professionally without due compensation. My personal opinions of Jona are singularly unflattering, but I kept them to myself in this case.
2 - We exercise our legal rights as a United States corporation. This would be easy to do; we have a law firm on retainer, and it is made easier by the fact that I'm an Oregon citizen. He only lives one county away from me. The vast majority of software companies would look at this entire scenario as the gift from heaven that it is. Imagine if the RIAA decided to go after him. However, Adam and I both felt that this course of action would reflect poorly on us as responsible adults.
3 - I treat the entire enterprise with light-hearted big brotherly humor, as you suggest. What does this imply? That I don't take my business seriously? That I don't feel the product of my work has intrinsic value of whatever sort? That I don't give a fuck in general? Sorry, that one isn't viable, and the only difference between this and ignoring it is that with ignoring it, I don't give Jona a brief shot at the bully pulpit.
Your "all you need is 1000 people" comment is so comedic I'm tempted to just let it slide, but suffice to say that, at a bare minimum, we have our $80 a month server bill and the roughly $2000 a year in accountant and legal fees necessary to actually have a corporation in the United States. For simplicity's sake, by your math that leaves $70,000. Adam and I split our net 50/50, and in order to justify this course of action, we have to continue our normal release schedule of 3 products a year, at least. So we both have a full time job coding, and our before-tax gross, assuming we do no advertising whatsoever, is $35,000. By the time the IRS gets their cut, that is actually about $27,000.
I'm not sure what world you live in, but in no way, shape, or form is $27,000 a year reasonable compensation for the time and skillset applied to the issue, never mind the fact that it is just above poverty. All this is completely aside the actual expenses of doing this for a living, which involves a lot of software and hardware purchases, advertising, and similar things. We _easily_ spend $50,000 a year operating this business, and this business is tiny compared to some of our peers.
It is, in short, one of the stupider things someone has posted on this site. In deference, we could make it work by releasing products that take less time to make, I'll grant you that.
In all honesty, when I wrote the post, and again when I woke up this morning, I felt bad for what I did. It didn't give me any pleasure whatsoever to write that. But it was important to do so, because not only do I have to inform the Jonas of the world in no uncertain terms that what they're doing is, in fact, wrong on many different levels, but I have to support the people that decided to pay for AD products, and keep the monetary value of those products, whatever it may be, from dispelling in to the aether.
So, a bit of a dick? I actually agree with you there. But you know where I stand on this, don't you? If that affects your buying (or downloading) habits, so be it.
-CR
Uh... "up here with us" being up there with devoted professional musicians with a strong ethical sense actually making money by playing festivals at the least. Sadly, that's just the hypothetical musician I heard in my head speaking those lines... not me. :)
I design and sell high-end audio hardware, so normally we don't see this kind of stuff. But in 3Q08, we learned that our gear was being knocked-off in China. Luckily, we now participate in the U.S. Customs Agency program which identifies and blocks physical products at the port of entry. I'm glad we don't do software...
I use a number of sound libraries for orchestral composition, and they ALL use iLok keys. Isn't that adequate protection against pirates?
Great post.
JL
Funny, according to his birthdate on wikipedia Jonah is a Sagittarius. I don't know if anyone here gives a crap about astrology, and I don't really care if you believe it or not, but this has got to be the most picture perfect archetypal example of sagittarius I have ever seen. There is a saying that sagittarians have a wire that goes straight from their brain to their mouth. Whatever they think, they say. There is no filter. The only reason they don't get themselves locked up or killed is that they tend to be all about love and optimism and hippy dippy stuff, so people excuse their horribly stupid behavior. They are absolutely clueless that people may take offense to the way they choose to express themselves, and there is no depth to their thinking at all.
Take it or leave it. I just thought it was interesting.
powr, ilok is not crack-proof. and a lot of software users hate it. it's where anti-piracy measures become a punishment for the actual customers. it sounds good, until you want to transfer licenses ($25/license), forget your ilok when you're working on your laptop, or lose it all together.
and developers probably have to invest time and money to get ilok protection.
quantize, yer a funny man.
I read all the comments to make sure I'm not repeating anything already said by somebody else so here goes:
On top of violating the 'Fight Club' rule about Warez, this guy apparently did not begin to consider the most glaringly obvious fact about music software:
There's a ton of free software and plugins, and a ton more extremely cheap application and plugins. Some are awful, but some are adequate and some are actually pretty great, and a few do what they do better than the spendy stuff.
So the bottom line is that if you're broke after buying your laptop you have options aside from theft. You might have to comb through hundreds of plugins on KVR-VST.com to find a sufficient working set, but how much time do you spend trying to figure out cracked software?
@afreshcupofjoe: I tend to feel that astrology is a self-fulfilling prophecy, taken for all in all, but my birthday is June 19, if that helps give you a fit of giggles. I'm the archetypal Gemini; the fates of Jona and I are intertwined in perfect harmony.
-CR
Well done Chris. What gets me is that he doesn't just do it, he glorifies and promotes it. A little support sent your way: <a href=" http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2009/01/jona-bechtolt-of-yacht.html matrixsynth.blogspot.com</a>"><a href=" http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2009/01/jona-bechtolt-of-yacht.html%3C/a%3E.
Simply put, it's just not cool. Not only does this impact you, it impacts us. We have to pay more, we get stuck with anti-piracy USB dongles, and worse, companies that produce the software that we want to use may go out of business.
It's bullshit. The only thing he could do at this point to redeem himself would be to become a public activist against piracy, and one for a long, long time...
without prolonging the 15 minutes of whatever this guy might otherwise end up with, that's a lot of computer mac hardware/fetish for someone who blithely pirates $50 vsteez. "consumer grade"...i wish i could buy an ~$150 indigo i/o for my $400 acer notebook. especially when looking at the live8 upgrade coming up.
i didn't find from the article he was a full-on, "everything in the world wants to be free" type. just kinda dumb. sorry, taking something that isn't yours is just wrong. that's what i teach my four year old, so maybe i'm too old and stupid to understand any other argument than what cr is making.
Weird , afreshcupofJoe called me and a twelfth of the worlds population "clueless", "horribly stupid", "hippy dippy", and shallow ("no depth to their thinking" ) he also implies I deserve to be "locked up or killed". Wow, Joe really dislikes me.
Well, thanks for that assessment of my character Joe, very nice. Now tell me which is the star sign associated with spewing random insults to millions of strangers ?
I think I'll stick with my innate shallowness and killability over that particular sociopathic trait !
On the one hand, I have to agree with FLASH FREDDY that threatening to destroy what little hope for a career in the music business Jonas has is too harsh. Yes, he made a really dumb mistake, but in the long run the punishment doesn't match the crime. To err is human, to forgive divine.
On the other hand, I can't really blame you, since you are human and have every right to it. As you mentioned, at least you aren't suing him.
Just keep in mind that punishing people who are asking forgiveness tends to make them indignant rather than repentant.
Chris,
I've been a fan of your writings and musing for a long time - a "longtime lurker" as the saying goes. I admire what you've accomplished in the past and what Audio Damage is accomplishing now.
I have to say that this post of your reeks of the worst of the music business. But worst, it's a power trip.
What your saying is "You'll never work in this town again!". Your threatening someone's career because he stole a negligible amount from you.
Here's a question for you:
Your friends, the Club Booker and the Music Supervisor: just how saintly are they?
Can you say with absolute certainty that they've never crossed any ethical boundries, that they've never abused the goodwill and the wallet of fellow musicians?
Here's another question for you: Can you publicly state that you've never used pirated software? How about Adam?
The dude apologized. Send him a bill. Hell, charge him interest. But threatening careers is cheap and low.
Obviously, I didn't mean "you'll never work in this town again" literally. How the fuck could I control his life in that manner? I may have an ego the size of Manhattan, but I'm ultimately pragmatic. Like I'm going to call every talent buyer in the country and say "hey, this dude you've never heard of... yeah... don't book him."
I was just illustrating, in perhaps too harsh a fashion, that karma usually has a knack for dealing with this sort of thing. As for publicly stating that I've never used cracked software, can't do that without lying, sorry. On the other hand, I don't publicly state that I have used cracked software either, and that's really what this is about, isn't it? It's not that he (or anyone) uses pirated software. There are circumstances in which that is not only plausible, but perhaps necessary. This is about a public figure (granted, a minor one) essentially espousing the virtues of building his creation on my back, and in turn questioning whether that tarnishes his character.
Or in a less long-winded way, in the unedited interview, he asks "does that make me a bad person?" He asked, I answered. I have more right to do so than most, seeing how he was asking in DIRECT relation to something I made. In my bloviating above, all I say, when you get down to it, is "yes, Jona, I believe you are misguided, and here's why..."
-CR
If you don't have any money, there is SO MUCH you can do these days without becoming a lowlife. SO MANY ways to go about your work without spending a dime.
The way the world works is if you can't afford stuff you want, you can't afford it. There's no and or but. The sentence is short and simple. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.
That is the only principle that matters. You don't just magically deserve stuff you can't afford.
It's the notion of entitlement that I find just absolutely confounding.
It's just fucking disgusting.
Get a pawnshop guitar, or a used drum set with faded sparkles, or an old forgotten yardsale drum machine, or buy a cheap used computer (or old 4-track cassette!), download some freeware (There's so much of it out there!). Get to work.
My background is in punk rock; I fully understand and respect operating low-to-the-ground. I believe in the power of imagination. Or, as my friend Joel Hamilton says, I believe in imagining that your wooden stick is a sword.
What I find just absolutely fucking reprehensible is "I deserve Timbaland's studio... in fact, I can't make music without it. I'm gonna go steal some shit and then I'll make my masterpiece."
There's no patience, no restraint, no dignity. Just this weird, vapid greed.
Why is it that everyone who pirates software keeps asking "Can you honestly say that you've never pirated software?" as if that's some amazing dare that nobody could truly answer in the affirmative.
Fucking YES. YES, I can say that I have never used pirated software! Like, Duh. I don't do it.
Why is that seen as such an exotic stance?
It should be the fucking DEFAULT.
This topic is not complicated!
- c
@FLASH FREDDY: 29 years old is not a kid. Jr. high kids know better - and most also know better than to go brag about it afterwards. a 29 year old bragging about this in 2009 is actually quite pathetic on several levels.
One last simple thing: how sad is it that a company that makes their work available so inexpensively STILL gets raided like this? It just makes you hang your head low in shame.
Steve Massey, Audio Damage, Tonehammer, Goldbaby... these are good people with good taste and love in their hearts for what they do!
How can you just snatch it like that and still think you're a cool guy?... it's beyond me. It's just so... douchebag.
OK, I gotta go. It's a beautiful Saturday afternoon and I'm seething on the internet. I'm gonna go walk my dog and try to forget this nonsense.
- c
Jona, please read the following paying strict attention to the bits about Rousseau: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
You aren't "sticking it to the man", you're sticking it to the rest of us.
@angstrom:
Chill out. Every sign has it's strengths and weaknesses. I could have pointed out that Saggitarians are generally some of the most fun people to be around, that they tend to be very honest and idealistic, and that they have an innate ability to see the big picture where others become myopic, but giving Jonah praise by exploring his more admirable qualities would not have been appropriate to this thread. And BTW, I have Saggitarius very strongly placed all over my chart, especially in the 3rd house, which rules communications. So, I am not surprised that I caused this reaction at all. Sorry if you took offense.
Lulz @ Chris being a Gemini.
I didn't intend this thread to devolve into a discussion about astrology. I realize that it is a fanciful preoccupation that most of the educated public views as nonsense, so if anyone else wants to argue you can direct your comments to freshcupofjoe@yahoo.com Cheers.
c'mon with the disingenuousness. saying "sorry guys!" is not an apology. it's a glib way of saying "i'm not remotely sorry, fuck off." so admonishing cr for not being all forgive and forget is sad.
i love it when people who pirate software start talking about how software "is leveling the playing field" and making it possible for everyone to make music yada yada... what a joke. because now we can have a bunch of quality effects and instruments in a laptop and the hardware equivalents would cost thousands of dollars... so, we're all so happy that the field is leveled that our reward to the people who leveled that field is to kick them in the nuts and grab their lunch money. "hey.. thanks for all the hard work now go fuck yourself."
sure, most musicians on indie labels who make music for a living aren't rolling in cash and drinking champagne in VIP rooms in clubs but $50 for a plug in is pretty reasonable especially if said plug in yields some new ideas and new tracks etc and becomes part of your tools that you use for making a living. I mean.. that's what we're paying for here.. tools to use to build things. so cough it up.
stealing software from a small developer is just douchey. would i care if yacht said he pirated Waves plugs? probably not, their policies only inspire piracy, but you can believe waves would have an attorney on his ass in 30 seconds if he mentioned their name in his piracy list. stealing is stealing regardless of who it's from.
This sounds really naive to me. Trying to teach a lesson about piracy to someone (Jona) who makes a product that is pirated WAY more than yours.
I run a record label. Deal with piracy of my products day in and day out. It is totally ass backwards to think that piracy is a 100% negative force for your business. Jona wasn't bragging but just answering a question and he did buy things from you.
His promotion of your products could really turn more people onto your stuff instead you make all these threats.
Could Jona find people who had downloaded his music and sue them? Yes, but he would never threaten that. The dude constantly has people bragging to him about pirating his music.
Seriously, wake up....find a new way to deal with this changing industry. The way you have acted here has certainly make me not want to use your products. It goes both ways dude.
whoah!
*me gets popcorn*
Snort.
It might behoove you to do a little research before you address me like that. I also own a record label, and have the VERY FIRST commercial recording released under a Creative Commons Sampling+ license, a license which I had no small part in creating, through conversations with Dr. Lessig.
This is a very different business than selling records, as there is no tertiary income stream from licensing, touring, selling swag. I could beat the fuck out of you with verbage on this subject, one of which I know a great deal, but this ain't Music Industry 101, and I'm not your TA.
-CR
I think this is a appropriately leveled response. And c'mon, Chris isn't saying "You'll never work in this town again." He's simply saying "What goes around." That's accurate in this business, especially.
You need to remember, this little fucker didn't accidentally admit he used cracked AD software. He boasted, and subsequently asked if he was wrong for doing so, completely expecting his awesome irony to be well received, like a 18 year old girl in a Pat Benatar shirt.
I have a 2 1/2 year old that knows not to take shit from other people. Stop making excuses for this guy. Mistakes imply that there's actually some kind of error or mishap involved. Stupid happens, but there is usually some kind of price to pay. This is a clear case of Stupid.
I think the thing that bugs me the most about all this is not that someone who certainly can afford it, willingly decided to pirate very affordable software from a very friendly company...
...but the fact that it was bragged about it publicly in a poor attempt at seeming 'punk'. Go ahead and take your trust-fund and hang your faux-hawk in shame: the gesture fell flat miserably. It almost seems to be fodder for failblog.org it was so painful.
I mean, yeah- I used illegal software for a minute... fresh out of university, etc etc. But I released a few records (with a label MUCH smaller than DFA) and I used the modest proceeds to replace most of my cracks with legit copies of the software I used. I did have an early interview or two that asked me what software I used (while I was still was using a cracked program), but not only did I squash the stupidity to say I was using an illegal copy... I didn't even list it in my workflow. I just kept my gob shut. Pretty simple...
Compared to the major labels, DFA is pretty small... but for the indies, it is big enough that their artists shouldn't be bragging about using pirated software from one of the most affordable QUALITY plug-in companies around...
"This is a clear case of Stupid."
a new mantra is born! (8 years too late thought)
also, re: "changing industry".. i think AD's business model is ideal. they have a more than reasonable registration and copy protection procedure, they take input/suggestions from their users and respond fast to bug fixes, customer service issues and generally seem like reasonable people who make cool stuff and aren't interested in bending you over for the privilege of using their creations. they even have a 30 day money back guarantee!
everyone knows piracy is gonna happen to some extent but if you can pay for stuff then you should. you'll value it more and invest more in learning it and using it if you actually pay for it.
http://meatwadrainbowrealized.ytmnd.com/
what strikes me is that the original interview was changed after chris mentioned it the first time. but what was changed? only the reference to audiodamage... "i stole reason, live and peak" is still in there. and what about the list of non-music software? i don't think he bought those. so how sorry is this guy really?
yeah.. it's a pretty dumb thing to be so explicit about something illegal.
"first we sprayed paint over the cameras then we killed the guard then we got the keys from the bank manager then we took the money and drove away in a red van and that's how we got away with" said the bank thief to the news reporter.
but, i guess that's just his impression of how things are.. the fact that he's so off the cuff about it means he thinks it's just normal for people to do.
Why doesn't this dick just use the software that comes included with his (expensive) apple purchases? Garageband, some freebies from the web (including the excellent Rough Rider!) and a few copies of CM and you're good to go. All the tools in the world don't mean a thing if you don't have ideas.
Well played my old friend.
My advice to Jonas or whatever the hell his name is, CR has more internet Fu in his pinky toe than most can acquire in a lifetime, and as you just witnessed he knows how to apply it. You were made to look like the red headed adopted child. That being said I'm sure that some of us at one time or another have used a crack, but you know what if you like it buy it, not just because it's the right thing to do, the software 99% of the time will become a lot more stable and work even better.
On a final note don't post, do interviews etc. while stoned then you probably wouldn't be trying to get your own damn fool foot out of your mouth.
Oh and P.S. CR means what he says about clubs, magazines, etc. I have seen the man get someone fired with one email, he get's his facts right and uses them like a surgeon uses a scalpel.
He just twittered "oops." Perhaps it's beginning to sink in.
Adam, fine post, thanks - does agreeing with that mean I'm mentally an old fart even being well under 30? ;)
"The pragmatic observation is this: the law is the law, and the law is quite clear about using pirated software.
...
Whether there is a philosophical or commercial difference between stealing a physical object and stealing a software entity is ultimately a point of little significance, unless you want to make a career out of attempting to change the copyright laws of this country and others."
Yeah, we agree on that point too. It's against the law, and de facto situation is that if you're pirating software, you're breaking the law. Get caught, get sued and pay the fines. That simple.
FWIW, Usually I tend to keep my mouth shut about controversial subjects on the internets since I'm constantly reminded that people can take it easy and discuss sensibly about things as long as some core set of personal values isn't at hand - after that it gets black & white. When piracy gets brought up, drugs get brought up, a dozen other things get brought up, suddenly it isn't an interesting discussion anymore, it's a clusterfuck. Sometimes it feels it's actually forbidden to discuss about some subjects and analyze them, without having a strict "for" or "against" agenda. I'm mostly really positively surprised about how this thread has gone - maybe the Iron Hand Of CR has removed posts by the worst foam-mouthed flamers or maybe they just know better than to hang out at these parts ;)
Beauty pill,
"The issue is not nearly as complex or nuanced or post-modern or abstract as some are making it out to be. It's bone simple."
There's actually an interesting thing related to that - even many Finnish people don't realize that according to the current law here, copying music, books and such is actually legal for your own use, as long as you don't distribute them to anyone (online or offline), don't use them for making money, and don't present them publicly (DJ sets et cetera).
So basically you can actually loan a CD from the library, make a copy for yourself to listen, and not break the law - but if another private person has given / shared a copy to you, HE is doing something unlawful. Copying software even for personal use IS against the law here too.
There's nothing postmodern to it - it's just a fact that more often than not there are different viewpoints and shades of gray to consider.
For the record, I haven't deleted a single post in this thread, although FLASH FREDDY sorely tempted me to break out the Ban Bat.
-CR
I'd steal from GC in a heartbeat...I hate those fuckin scumbags ever since the salesman ditched me to jump on Frankie Bones dick and sell him the same floor model mixer I was about to have that scumfuck salesman go ring out for me.
Newsflash!
Flash Freddy!, Ranger Smith is looking for you..they want to herd you back into the KVR Gorilla Cage.
Ok ok, joking aside...am I the first to note that the 29 yr old 'gentleman' in question was only *offering* to pay a bill if Chris sent it?
WTF?
There is facility at AD.com to just instantly purchase the said plugins..Would that not have been the most immediate & sincere effective apology - what's with the melodrama? Did i miss something or has 29 become the new 19?
The 'apology' seems pretty insincere just on the face of it.
Chris and Adam have every right to be pissed off, especially when someone is flaunting their stealing like they're some cyber robin hood in aluminum foil tights..this is not Waves who remove your spleen and insert an iLok in it's place. Not that choosing a more appropriate target would have made it any more ok to do!
At 29 there should be enough mental ability to either pay for the plugins enabling your music career OR if you are unable to, and INSIST on stealing them (which is ludicrous given how fair the AD prices are) then be at least smart enough to shut your monster flapping yap.
29 is just TOO old for that kind of boof-headed bravado.
Seriously. I can't believe (though I am partially at fault as well) the discussion about this 2-bit plonker continues on.
Don't know why, but I just felt in the mood to buy a couple of AD plugs I been saving for a rainy day.
BLAM. Click, Bought.
Big Ups Chris & Adam- may you please bless us with another 5 year anniversary to celebrate. My music thanks you, because you help me do what I want & need to do artistically. My wallet thanks you, because you help me do it very economically.
has anyone, illegally, download porn for free? Did you make any money off of what you did with it? is that relevant?
if so, did you feel guilty? or not at all thinking they don't deserve a dime for what they do to those nice girls that aren't paid enough for showing us their things. I really don't know why would I want to pay these people that are exploiting them? is that stealing? yes, technically of course.
I'm bad here, as I "steal" download tons of music to check it out, but if it's great I buy it! It's an excellent way to discover new artists. I don't want some shitty digital copy that is either compromised by compression or will be lost in 20 years, so i don't think i'd buy a digital download of music, unless it offers better quality than SACD/DVDA... and still i'd prefer it be a work important enough to be represented in a physical form.
Sorry, this is a bit OT, and yes DL for software is great, I see no reason for the wasted packaging. Just bought Numerology and Audiofile's sadly named Wave Editor.
Damn. I turn off the interwebs for 2 days......
Chris and Adam, congratulations on the milestone. I love your products and the fact that you have resisted the temptation to make twice-baked over-priced glut-fests will keep me a loyal customer for years to come.
Jona: these thoughtful and intelligent posters can debate the finer points of your actions and the relative consequences all day. And good arguments will be made, both pro and con, that will cause me to ponder the full extent of the ramifications of those who do what you do. But none of this rhetoric will change the fact that I believe you are a complete cunt for being so outwardly boastful about your actions.
Diamond Dave looks a lot better now, doesn't he?
@quantize - I was thinking the same thing. 'Dude wants to make right, why doesn't he go ahead and login and add them to his account?' How did this become the developers' responsibility to make everything right? Fuckin' pinhead knows what's on his hard drive not AI. Why should he have some special treatment?
I truly hope the era of the entitled hipster is coming to an end.
For the record, not that anyone really cares or would be surprised if they did, no, I don't use pirated software. Have I never used it? I once bought a "backup" floppy of SimCity for DOS - though it never worked right. And my first version of Photoshop (2.0!) was given to me - a legit disc but you know this was back when it was serial # only. But even then, before I'd really thought much about the ethics of software, the minute I started making money from using it I saw that it behooved me to actually get in on the development, get support. Cause, really, that's all we're all doing, more or less, leasing the software by supporting the company so that it stays current and more or less bug free and gets better, helps us grow in whatever endeavor it was designed for.
Also, and here I'll come clean, I have some German mag-ware that technically I shouldn't have. It's not commercial software, and if I lived in Europe (or back in NYC I suppose) it would be no big thing, the equivalent of anything from the CM Studio. And, honestly, I've never used it in anything more serious than farting around, more just curious to see what I was missing. But, yeah, I did download it off some random link on a random message board. And I still feel guilty about it. Even though I've bought other products from the developer. But really, it's the equivalent of owning a bootleg vinyl of a Neil Young and Devo concert from 74, no?
Anyway, I can say with no hypocrisy that I've done my part to ensure that the people who make the tools I need to do my thing, either for work or pleasure, are able to stick around another year or two and continue to support me.
And, finally, this "the market is changing, companies must adapt" defense is specious at best. You're looking at the new market, guy. People making tools that are alternatives to more funded companies and selling them at a reasonable price with good customer support. Stop pretending that it's all Sony, Waves, Digi, et al and that any company that makes a toy you want is somehow conspiring to keep you from your genius. It's simply not true.
Everyone pirates software? Yeah, well, everyone watches American Idol and listens to Nickleback, too. Doesn't make it any less stupid.
Ouch!
Righteous ouch. But ouch nevertheless.
Entertaining tho
simple, Jona, could be accountable for this loss, by spreading this piracy. assume 50,000 or more followed that.... so AD could easily pursue him to recover damages for that. so that' 50,000 for every plug for Jona to pay. RAINBOWS!!
AMERICAN IDOL IS NOT STUPID! TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT NOW!!! ZOMGWTF?
Seriously, though. I'll come right out and say it. Idol is my guilty pleasure. I call it my bi-weekly Schadenfreude Hour. I do believe that I take something different from the show than is probably intended by the producers, but none the less, guilty as charged.
I do not now, nor have I ever, listened to Nickleback, though.
-CR
posted January 24, 2009 by quantize
"Did i miss something or has 29 become the new 19?"
Sweet! That means I turn 29 this year.
40 was starting to seem uncomfortably close...
Hugo
wtf is nickleback?
http://www.last.fm/music/Motherhead+Bug
http://www.last.fm/music/Firewater
some CSC outcasts seem to provide for better listening
whatever, capitalism sucks... see MC900
excuse me while i pee in this thread to mark my post
I realized that American Idol was probably picking a controversial example. At least the show is predicated on a degree of ability if not actual talent. How about this? Paul Bart, Mall Cop was the #1 movie in the country last week; Howie Mandel continues to have a popular television career.* Justifying one's actions by what the masses are doing is a slippery slope.
The Carbuncler is obviously trying to win brownie points by linking to my favorite NYC music of my youth. Throw in some Elliot Sharp and Foetus and we've got ourselves a party.
Note to the trainspotters in the crowd: if you get the Foetus live-at-CB's video "Male," you can clearly see me in all my 21-yr-old glory standing between Lydia Lunch and Super Star Of David Booking Agent Jerry Gerard on the side of the stage several times during the show, but most notably after the sadly-edited-out fight Jim got in to with an audience member right in the beginning of the most excellent cover of Tad's "Behemoth."
For the record, that show took place one week before the Greatest Live Performance I've Ever Attended, which was Foetus opening for Neubauten at Sound Factory (inexplicably.) Neubauten had recently gotten themselves banned from playing the Paladium, a much more logical venue for them, by the simple expedient of setting it on fire.
Ahhhhhh, those were the days. When "industrial" meant "I whack metal things with other metal things" instead of "I make dated-sounding trance tracks in Fruity Loops, then sing about cutting myself over the top of them."
-CR
Nickleback writes very poppy catchy songs. Well, I don't know if they write them, but whoever writes them knows good pop writing. Nickleback is on my gym iPod, right next to Micronaut. ;)
I never heard of "Paul Bart, Mall Cop" until I saw it was the #1 movie. Crazy.
I think vae has a point about stealing software not being the same thing. It's one of those things that is hard to discuss rationally because people get very emotional.
Stealing software is wrong, but I don't think it's the same as stealing a CD or a toaster, and I think it's hurting the cause to keep saying that. I think it has a "Reefer Madness" effect on the kids, they look at it and think "well that's obviously not true, so your whole point must be wrong". It makes them ignore the whole issue, or at least gives them an excuse to do so.
I don't think that stealing software is any less wrong than any other kind of stealing, but it needs to be discussed on it's on terms and not just "it's the same as shooting a man in the face". I personally think the whole issue is full of nuance and great fodder for long discussions, but some people just freak out on the subject.
It's pretty simple; if you use software, buy it. If you use it to make money and you don't buy it, that's when it becomes black-and-white wrong for me.
Bragging about it though is the height of assholeocity. I wonder if he brags about beating his girlfriend when he's drunk too?
And 29 has been the new 19 for a while. It's pretty sad. But I'm old, so maybe that's just my opinion.
bb
I think that Jona is being viewed as the archetypal software pirate, but I am not sure if this is a correct interpretation. I lived in Olympia, Washington for a few years, and his behavior is TOTALLY in line with what I saw with many of the residents of this town, and the associated Evergreen State College / K Records scene. The symptoms:
- A weird sense of entitlement, where everyone else is privileged, and you are not. This means that you are OWED THINGS. This translates to doing shoddy work and expecting to get paid for it, wanting free stuff from people, etc. In this case, it means that using cracks of commercial software is his RIGHT. Sort of like socialism, except that it only goes in one direction - towards them.
- Things have to be happy and positive, and it is roaching on your mellow when things are negative, even when you engage in actions that would anger any reasonable human being. A good example is the stoned Trustifarian that rear-ended my very pregnant wife and very pregnant friend. Twice. In the space of 1 minute. When my wife started to talk with him, he said "You're being really hostile, man." My wife then proceeded to demonstrate what hostile was. His insurance company also let him know, when they had to foot the bill for the emergency labor my wife's friend went into that evening.
- It's all about "the kids." You're a kid, your fans are kids. Even if you are pushing 30, like Jonah, or are 48 years old, like Calvin Johnson.
- A musical naivete. Personally, I kind of like this aspect, especially when contrasted to the ridiculously macho aspect of much of the early 90's rock (although my musical tastes ran more towards loud testosterone music). However, I find it hard to believe that you can be in a band for 10 or more years, and still not learn how to play your instrument, so it seem a bit affected to me.
I was going to come up with a pithy closing paragraph, but I think it is best to tell a joke about Oregon's Olympia equivalent:
Q: Why did all the hippies move to Eugene?
A: Because they heard there was no work there!
"As a former police officer, I saw Jona's type all the time. They're very sorry for what they did...once they'd been caught.
He's the kind of person that hates all lawyers, except his lawyer. He hates the government, until it "owes" him something. He hates the police, until he needs one to save his ass. He hates corporations (like AD even though it's two people) because they charge for things that should be free, yet his music is for sale on Itunes. People should gladly pay him for his efforts because, well, because it's different when it's him! He's pro-rainbow!"
Randroids and Libertarians are fun from a distance.
Elliot Sharp was in Seattle last night, one of my favs! And, yeah, Foetus is a kind of god, interviewed him in 91. Also, EN and TW...so common ground.
The story of MC 900ft Jesus is kinda sad,
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-01-31/music/900-ft-jesus-lives/
CR's post was not harsh at all. What the YACHT guy did was really not cool. I've used warez in the past, back in my younger days when this whole software audio scene was in its infancy and there really was not any freeware worth a shit (unlike now). Back then it was really not the done thing to brag about it, hassle devs for support or have a sense of entitlement to anything. After a while, it was not hard to observe that it quickly degenerated into rampantly consumerist awfulness, full of dork 'producers' demanding the latest update to commercial apps and plugins - not only expensive apps like Logic and Cubase but cheap $30 plugs as well. I soon realised that this was not a cool way to live your life, as did a lot of the best crackers. Anyone with any real talent who's getting badgered by some whining brat for the latest cracks quickly exits that scene and abandons any lingering romantic notions of resource-democratisation. Incidentally I know some people who work at software companies, and you really wouldn't believe the sheer amount of people who have the cheek to demand tech support, in the most uppity, condescending way - I find this even more ugly than any other aspect of the modern warez culture.
The Bechtolt guy has a very irksome kind of grudging attitude towards paying for apps that he can't get working cracks for - his little rant against the clever Germans at Ableton made me want to slap his little bitch ass, quite honestly. The same attitude is evident in him asking Chris to send him a bill for the plugins he's used (wtf, how is he supposed to know). Chris dealt with the issue in an extremely dignified way in my opinion. It didn't come across to me as anything other than a nice statement on karma. It would have been far easier to send him an invoice for the entire AD catalog, or link to his wikipedia page and casually suggest that people place down as interweb fact what a sheer ass-hat he really is.
Oh yeah and there is another very fucked up aspect of warez. It absolutely does have an effect on development - it means that companies are much less likely to take risks. And that overall means a whole lot less innovation and progression. I don't think it's that hard to see these effects today.
"This sounds really naive to me. Trying to teach a lesson about piracy to someone (Jona) who makes a product that is pirated WAY more than yours.
I run a record label. Deal with piracy of my products day in and day out. It is totally ass backwards to think that piracy is a 100% negative force for your business."
Oh yes, the markets and demographics are obviously *exactly* the same.
"Jona wasn't bragging but just answering a question and he did buy things from you."
Saying piracy is "liberating" is bragging, dummy.
"His promotion of your products could really turn more people onto your stuff instead you make all these threats."
He's not encouraging people to BUY, he's encouraging them to PIRATE all of AD's products.
"Could Jona find people who had downloaded his music and sue them? Yes, but he would never threaten that. The dude constantly has people bragging to him about pirating his music."
Different product, different industry, different manners of monetizing.
"The way you have acted here has certainly make me not want to use your products."
Why is it that every time I hear this line responded to a perfectly reasonable and mature business decision, I know that the person who says it only does so because he was never EVER going to buy the product in question anyway?
It's a weak and insincere promise.
as for the "there's no excuse if you're making money off of the tools" argument...
You aren't allowed to steal from the toy store either. I don't care whether you "seriously use" music products... The existence of decent quality freeware alone is enough to ruin any argument in favor of software piracy, and frankly, just because I don't race cars doesn't give me the right to steal a porche 9/11, just because I'm only driving it to work and back at 100 kmph max.
Ouch!
Righteous ouch. But ouch nevertheless.
Entertaining tho
FLASH FREDDY
You fail to see something here, there is a difference between someone who grows to see the error of their ways and cleans up after themselves and someone who gets outed and then apologizes. "Real Life" has consequences. Piss on someones feet and you can well expect that they may remember that fact and can be considered justified in mentioning your failure to control your bladder to others. Bed wetting by a 5 year old is tolerated, by a 29 year old not so much. Do yourself a favor and stop considering Boing Boing as an informed source on this and all related matters.
vae
Its laughable how people talk about how the world has changed, broken busines models, etc. The hand waving of stealing is not the right word for unauthorized copying and all the other crap ass excuses. I'm pretty darn sure that this kind of linguistic hair plitting comes down to trying to get around "thou shalt not steal". Here's a simple way to deal with that, quit worrying about trying to get around the word steal and realize the basic ethic is "thou shalt not take what is not freely given".
Quantize, beauty pill
Bless y'all. You two are made of win. As far as the "old school" DIY ethic goes, how many thousands of tracks were made on shoestring budgets with scavenged or home built gear before everything went computerized? Makes me want to go into full GET OFF MY LAWN mode.
Im NOT in the "side" of this Jona, but I remember an old post here:
http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.jsp?msgid=1186190949909
"Now, it's on to Cubase 4, Live, energyXT, and Bidule, and then I'll start putting in plugins. One nice thing about this recent destruction is that I'm finally able to completely purge my system of all... uh... "unofficial" versions. Since I don't have any old projects to load any more (hardy har har) I don't actually need any plugins in particular. So it's a nice opportunity to get things 100% official."
I'm truly asking what did you meant with "unofficial"
necho,
I considered doing that but you did it well.
Why don't you hop back a few pages and look at my comment on the subject, Manuel?
Once again, this argument has nothing to do with _using_ cracked software, which is common, and in some cases justifiable. This argument is about gloating about it in public, especially when you are a public figure.
-CR
Sorry I didn't read all the comments. I agree with that. And was thinking that maybe that's what you were really criticizing
it's a bummer to read this, as i was/am a yacht fan. i actually met him at a concert 2 years ago and was interested in talking to him because i also perform with ableton. it's a bummer that when i hear his music now, the thought that will come to my mind is this: he claims that he could not have created what he created without the tools he stole. that just doesn't make sense to me. aside from the fact that many of us now hold more recording capabilities in the palm of our hand with an iphone than many major-label artists had access to 50 years ago, our art should not be limited by the tools we use
i don't use any AI products, but i know who they are because, as an artist, i think it's important for me to know what's available. if i had a real need for BigSeq that couldn't be met with a tool that i've already paid for, i would buy it. age really isn't a part of this - i learned not to steal when i was 5 - but i do understand where the lines are blurred. i'm 22, and if you're my age, you've grown up with free access to a lot of things that people 10, even 5, years older had to pay for.
Pitchfork has now covered this spat: http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/148819-yacht-caught-in-nerd-flame-war-tours-names-lp
What I think it's interesting how no one on here has even touched on what I see as the real issue--someone came close in a previous post when they asked whether the term "post-ethical" had yet been coined. To me, Jona Bechtolt's actions and words do not indicate some sort of ethics-less phase our culture has entered, just a changing understanding of what ethical behavior is.
Whether you like it or not (and it seems pretty clear that most of you reading this do not), the fact of the matter is millions of people download music, movies, and software illegally. By definition, these people see nothing wrong with this kind of "piracy." Every day more and more people do it, and I see no indication that this trend will reverse itself anytime soon. Eventually a majority of people in our society will feel this way, if this is not the case already. Social conventions will change, and then perhaps the laws. You can argue whether this is right or wrong, but to me that's beside the point.
This is how history works. Things change. During the industrial revolution artisans and craftspeople sat around complaining about how machines and factories were cutting into their business. Did industrialization kill the skilled craftsperson? No. Did it hurt them? Sure. And the way products were produced, not to mention human life in general, changed forever. The internet is having a similarly profound effect on the way information is created, distributed, and consumed.
But it's not just technology that changes. Just as life changed irrevocably with the industrial revolution, the internet has had a immeasurable impact on how we see and live in the world. Every age has it's own standards of right and wrong, good and bad. The concepts that you all hold so dear, like "intellectual property" and "copyright" did not exist before the modern era, and it seems pretty apparent to me that they cannot last a whole lot longer in an age where the only thing standing between the individual and an unlimited supply of art, information, and creative tools is some sort of outmoded honor system.
Why isn't YACHT in the Artists section of the AD site?
These Yacht faggots give queers a bad name. You don't have to be a fucking pussy to be a positive homosexual.
I would just like to say that this piracy problem is simply not going to go away. ISP's can try and limit bandwidth and ppl will find away around it; software distributors can use locking keys and people will find a way around it. There is going to have to be a MAJOR change to the way things are distributed for this problem to be solved.
While it may sound like a poor option the only thing I can think of is renting time with software over a connection instead of actually purchasing it. However there are probably ways around that as well.
The only positive I can find in all of this is it's forcing companies to be very creative in the methods they choose to distribute their products. It's going to be a long hard road especially in these hard economic times when piracy has become so well known and so easy to do.
I dont think it's fair at all to Audio Damage or any other company for that matter. Someday there might be an answer to this issue but it wont be anytime soon and alot of profit will be lost to companies like Audio Damage.
It's rather sad really and on a side-note I really had no idea that Audio Damage was just two guys doing there thing. Bravo to you two for such amazing products. I've heard what the vst's are capable of and really want to get some of them and plan on purchasing.
However even on my end I was recently laid off so it simply cannot be a priority for me at this time. So I can only imagine those with less conscience then myself taking advantage and DL'ing the pirated copies. It's sad really but at some point there simply MUST be a change in the way things are done.
I just had another thought for Audio Damage. Just from the sheer amount of plugs you already have why not write an API that implements them all and you can then lease or sell exclusive rights to a hardware company like Korg or Roland to produce actual hardware that implements the features and connects to a computer via usb/FW acting as a vst in a daw and just collect royalties or lease payments?
Fantastic post !
The "points" made here are silly: You are in the USA, and people want money so you must give it; we have to charge for this creation; "wrong is wrong"; stealing software is like stealing candy bars or items from Guitar Center; we have better connections than you, and you will be ex-communicated from the biz.
You have got to be kidding me, do these even need an address? I'd think they're ludicrous on the surface, and yet there are comments of agreement, and beyond that, praise. Not stunning, but pitiful.
Agreed, it isn't wise to publicly disclose one's crimes, but these are currently just unverified *claims* by this Bechtolt guy. There are more than a few rappers talking about doing or having done crimes, but they don't "have a couple summonses to look forward to", so stop with the tough posturing; you're like the cop who tells everyone "I could have you arrested, but I won't" - you want some kind of credit for being nice and benevolent, but really you're still asserting the power you *could* wield if you weren't so self-proclaimed kindhearted. Stuff it.
Although, judging by comments, it does seem to be popular stance with the audio-editing former-police-officer crowd.
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