# Poll Time... - Site: Analog Industries - Author: Chris Randall - Date: 2011-04-23 - URL: https://analogindustries.com/2011/04/poll-time/ We're busy building our latest Roadmap To Success/Five Year Plan/Whatever, and while I have a fairly good idea of what the answers to this poll will be, I'd like a little less anecdotal evidence. While it's true that most of us use multiple platforms, I'll wager one of those options is the one you can't live without. Click that one. (Note: if your main DAW is Live OSX, hit the "OSX 32-bit VST" option. Obviously, you can use AUs in Live, but it is more or less pointless to do so unless you need to share presets with Logic.) **Which plug-in platform is most important to you?** ## Comments (46) **bcomnes** (2011-04-24): Well I voted Windows 32 bit only because I use Live, but if Ableton gets their act together and goes 64 bit , then that would change my vote **sharaab** (2011-04-24): it's really not going to matter that i voted OSX RTAS, is it? **seancostello** (2011-04-24): I voted for "Some Sort Of Linux Bullshit." For It Was Funny. Feel free to ignore that vote. **Chris Randall** (2011-04-24): Not any more than that lonely Linux Bullshit vote, no, but the information is useful. If not to us, than to the other devs that read this blog. EDIT: Obviously, Sean and I were typing at the same time. I take back my comment, because "other devs" are obviously no help at all. -CR **shamann** (2011-04-24): Not that I care, but for the three guys who do, no VST3 option? **Chris Randall** (2011-04-24): If they can use VST3, they can use any of the other VST options, so it'd be essentially the same as clicking any one of those. VST3 is, thank all the gods, not what I call a "buying decision" platform. That is to say that not having VST3 format isn't a deal breaker. At least it isn't currently. -CR **Mike** (2011-04-24): Well I'll be vote number 2 for OSX RTAS. I imagine this will have as much sway as my vote at the last UK General Election - none what-so-ever. **Nostradamus** (2011-04-24): Windows 64 bit since the time of 32 bit is over. I'm a long time Linux user but I wouldn't ever use it to make music. **Computer Controlled** (2011-04-24): Win 32bit. I don't see any reason to go to 64 bit (unless i'm forced to). It wouldn't make a damn bit of different in the stuff that i make. **boobs** (2011-04-24): i won't be interested in 64 bit until everything i use is 64bit and that'll be a while. audiomulch, numerology, all the various plug ins etc... **Chris Randall** (2011-04-24): Just to be clear, I had a pretty good idea on these numbers already. I can see the different platforms downloaded in our store, so I have accurate information on the Win/Mac split. But I was mainly curious as to how many of those Mac users use AUs versus VSTs. -CR **Nostradamus** (2011-04-24): I use 64 bit because I use orchestra libraries as well. Needs huge amount of RAM. I know there are some page flipping or mapping mechanisms available in Win 32 bit (called PAE) which allows applications to address more than 4 GByte, but I'm not sure if the applications in question have to support this feature by using a special API (this API is available, see Micrososft MSDN for technical information). However, I prefer the uncomplicated way and use a 64 bit system. **Chris Randall** (2011-04-24): 64-bit Win is no trouble at all to make. Just a build rule. So you don't have to feel bad about that. ;-) -CR **BlueSpark** (2011-04-24): @Nostradamus - PAE lets the system use more than 4GB, but each app is still limited to 4GB, AFAIK. Man, Linux Bullshit is kicking Windows RTAS' ass. **xmodz** (2011-04-24): My vote is for win 32 VST. Still rocking XP over here with no reason to change. Chris, what's your vote? I assume you are in the OSX 32bit VST boat when it comes to using plugins for making music. **Chris Randall** (2011-04-24): @BlueSpark: I have _never,_ in my whole history as a musician, met a Windows PT user that had a licensed copy of PT, or one that didn't steal every plug they could get their hands on. I don't mean to generalize, but in my experience, that isn't the sort of platform where one cares too much about commercial plug-in offerings. One dude I was on tour with once actually laughed about it. To me. That was a short conversation. Word to the wise: if you meet me in person, and you think it'll be funny to goad me about plug-in piracy, think again. That is a subject upon which I have strong feelings that I don't mind sharing. @xmodz: Actually, I do most of my "professional" music work in Windows Live (for electronic music) or Windows Cubase 5 (for "rock" music.) I do a lot (most) of my experimentation on my MacBook Pro, but I don't use a lot of plug-ins when I do that. I'm busy inventing plug-ins, not using them. -CR **xmodz** (2011-04-24): I actually own a copy of PT that I bought for school use. I prefer it's workflow when doing raw waveform edits and slicing/dicing over Live but I end up using Live because others I know use it for collabs, VST support, clips, etc. I hate how Live handles waveforms aside from the warp features. When I need to handle waveforms, I break out Reaper instead of PT, even though I own it, because of the dongle, proprietary plug ins, and all that bullshit. Now you have met a sometimes PT user that actually owns it. **TheLowEnd** (2011-04-24): @CR when I read that you used Windows Live for your electronic music making, for one fleeting moment I had a vision of you hunched over MSN, Hotmail, Windows Movie Maker and Photo Gallery trying to wring some usefulness out of them! **bassling** (2011-04-24): I'm with boobs. **renderful** (2011-04-24): I'm with boobs. **bleen** (2011-04-24): For the first time ever, I'm not w/bewbs. I've posted numerous times here about my need for 64-bit AU, so it's heartening to see that I'm not the lone voice out here in the woods. **jefurii** (2011-04-24): i'm gonna go for the "Linux bullshit". long live the penguin! **MitchK1989** (2011-04-24): Another guy who voted 32 bit windows because ableton live isn't 64 bit yet... **Trackdriver** (2011-04-24): Windows 32-bit here as Live is 32-bit. Not that 64-bit would change anything for me personally as I never use big multilayered multisampled flutes and violins. Actually, I don't use anything I haven't sampled myself **DaveAA** (2011-04-24): I used a fully-paid-for Windows Pro Tools set-up for a few years, before I switched to a Mac. **syikom** (2011-04-25): People at my gigs nod there head and move there feet mumbling dig that 64bit shit homey little do they know its 32bit hah....:-/ **chaircrusher** (2011-04-25): Actually, there is a slight performance advantage for 64-bit code, according to what I've read (and seen myself, with hardcore medical image processing), but it's on the order of 10-15%. Not enough to make a completely platform change, especially in the music software arena. I don't know why Live doesn't already have a 64 bit version. Just as a technical challenge, if it takes you more than a few days to port to 64 bit, your code must be shit to begin with. **Peppe** (2011-04-25): bleen: how's your 64-bit transition been? Mine has had quite a few, eh, glitches. Not in a devine way (not even that), unfortunately. I, too, voted for 64-bit AUs. My projects have lately gotten out of hand and there's no turning back, mostly thanks to NI. CR, any near future 64-bit plans? ;-) **wr** (2011-04-25): OT : Max Mathews T-shirt? **bleen** (2011-04-25): @ Peppe - I've generally had good luck with Logic at 64-bit. I'm trying to use as many 64-native plugs as possible, but still need the bridge for all of my iLok-protected ones (McDSP, mostly). The AD 64-bit plugs that have been ported so far work great. I'm mixing music 99% of the time, so not many VIs running here during "job hours", although I have NI Komplete and things like Kontakt run great. I'm excited that the next update to Madrona Labs' Aalto will be 64-bit, too. **pranafire** (2011-04-25): For some reason Firefox doesn't like you poll, and I cant vote. So here it is for me: 32 bit AU. **Carlos-Serrano** (2011-04-25): Speaking of Aalto, what is the reason for the AU - only release on some plugs? You don't see it often, but Aalto and the SineVibes stuff are examples. Aren't AU's just VST's with an Apple shell? Wouldn't it be easier to develop the VST first? **shamann** (2011-04-25): Acknowledging that vote results thus far aren't perfectly representative, but are there really that many AD customers using Logic? I'd have figured that of the Mac userbase, Logic users would be much fewer than Live users, not an equal number. **Chris Randall** (2011-04-25): Live users cover two platforms, whereas you can assume that every 64-bit AU user is a Logic user, and that's that. @Carlos: There are a couple companies that make AUs only; this allows them to use Quartz UIs entirely. Those of us that make cross-platform products don't have that option. In any case, there is no "Apple shell." Most of our products, other than the last 5 or so, are "real" AudioUnits. We switched to Symbiosis, the excellent wrapper from Sonic Charge, when we released Discord3. But most companies used FXpansion's wrapper or JUCE. And now, the VST3.5 SDK creates AUs on the fly as you build, so there's even less reason to bother with 'em. Hardly anyone makes "real" AudioUnits anymore. Basically, it's just an annoying format we all need to deal with because Apple is somehow offended by Steinberg's licensing terms. There's no earthly reason for it otherwise. -CR **shamann** (2011-04-25): I was thinking all OSX 32-bit AU users would be using Logic, too, but a search of KVR's database tells me that there are other hosts that only host AU plugins, something I did not know. I figured every host other than Logic would host VST as well. **bleen** (2011-04-25): DP is AU only (and MAS but if there were ever a dead plug-in format...), Numerology is AU only. 'Tisn't just Logic. **seancostello** (2011-04-25): @Carlos: Aalto is being ported to Windows/OSX VST. Aalto is built in Juce. @Chris: Interesting poll. The numbers jibe with my own sales stats, except that OSX RTAS shows up higher in my sales figures. Long-time readers would know that votes for this on your blog would be like voting for Nader, so this discrepancy is easily explained. **Dubone** (2011-04-25): I use Win 32 bit but voted OSX 64 because I intend to move to Apple probably for all the wrong reasons, and because from my experience, having first programmed using punch cards, it seems to me a 5 year plan should be looking at 64 bits. **justin3am** (2011-04-25): Since I only use Pro Tools in OSX for mixing, the only RTAS plug-ins I use are those suited to mixing tasks (eqs, compressors, the occasional reverb). When I'm writing music or designing sounds I'm using Live and/or Numerology in OSX (so 32bit VSTs and AUs). This means that when I go shopping for mixing tools, it must have an RTAS version or work well in Kore2/FXpansion wrapper. On the other hand, if I'm looking at VIs, wacky multi-effects or midi generators/processors it doesn't matter much if a plug-in is AU only or VST only. I realize there aren't many others like me but it might be worth while to consider that some folks needs change depending on what kind of tool we're talking about. **inteliko** (2011-04-26): I think CR is the only person running an Apple IIe DAW. **bongo_x** (2011-04-26): One reason for using AU's in Live; If you're already using DP or Logic then you're using AU's, if you now use VST's in Live there's another set of plugins to keep current and organized. Trying to do that on two computers already makes me crazy. I only use Pro Tools as an editor, as God intended it to be. I was surprised to see how many RTAS plugins I have since I only use 2 or 3 of them. Now that they've opened up the hardware, if PT hosted AU's I'd probably go back to that as my main squeeze. bb **Chris Randall** (2011-04-26): Yeah, I agree with bongo_x in this particular case. If your main recording app is Logic or DP, and you just use Live for extra curricular activity, you might as well use the AUs. That way, any preset you make in Live gets stored in the canonical AU preset folder for that plug, and is available to Logic and DP as well. (Assuming the plug doesn't have its own preset machinations.) And fuck, if it ain't broke, don't sweat it. Where I get annoyed is when people that _only_ use Live talk some bullshit about how AUs are more better because they're an Apple format or whatever. That's just bullshit. In a cross-platform plug, the DSP is usually identical, and an AU has 10 times the support structure of a VST2.4. There is simply no way it is a more efficient format; that is a physical impossibility. The one exception is plugins that need a sidechain. Generally, AUs are a bit more adept at handling this than VST2.4, which doesn't have the feature built-in, but is usually kind of a hackish add-on. -CR **Gene** (2011-04-27): I never thought I'd need 64-bit until I bounced up against the memory wall in the Logic the other day while layering up some large sample based instruments. I'm not keen on using a 32-bit bridge (for my other plug-ins), so for now I'll bounce as I go if memory is getting low, but honestly, it would be faster and easier to manage without having to worry about RAM limitations. It's not the sot of purposeful constraint that I find induces creativity, but YMMV. I have to imagine that for people doing soundtrack work with large sample libraries, 64-bit is a potential godsend. With musical directors requesting constant changes to the material, not having to bounce or freeze tracks allows for far greater flexibility in those situations. **Free** (2011-04-29): @Gene - While the technical RAM limitation in Logic Pro 9 is still 4GB, I noticed when switching from LP8 to 9 that it's practical limit is really around 2GB. Even when I'm not working on a large cue and just working on a largish track with a lot of AU instances I find Logic not only starts crying about at about 2GB but occasionally turns into a buggy-ass piece of shit after that, giving me all manner of issues. Switching to 64bit mode, IME, has eliminated both problems for me. @CR - I work almost exclusively in 64bit with LP now, if only to feel like I'm using a functioning DAW. I realize I'm in the minority of your user base, but I'm glad the Sonic Charge solution has helped you guys with the creation of 64 bit versions of some of your plugs (in my case, Eos). Thanks. **Vaihe** (2011-05-02): Logic 9 RAM "Limitation" is a fucking pain. I have more RAM than ever and on some tracks i get constant RAM error. I never had problems with RAM before. I think that some plugs "leak" RAM on L9 as same song opened in L8 has no problems. If 64bit fixes that then great. **blurk** (2011-05-03): Another vote for OS X 32-bit AU here even though I often use OS X 32-bit VST plugins. I use Bidule which supports both, but I also use Numerology which currently only does AUs. Though I've noticed at least a couple of the AD AUs show a blank UI. Never got around to reporting that because I've never had the time to figure out whether it's a host problem or a plugin problem.