Secret Weapons...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
Okay, I figure this subject is interesting enough to warrant its own post. In the previous topic, we discover that we generally agree that the following synths, which can be had for a song for the most part (or at least they could before this post, sorry…), are all worth space in your studio:
1. Ensoniq ESQ-1 / ESQ-M / SQ-80 I lump these together because they’re all essentially the same thing; the SQ-80 has moar of everything the ESQ has. I just bought an ESQ-M for $100 last week, and this is right in line with what I’ve paid for the four I’ve owned. This one is kind of a no-brainer. I am personally baffled as to why these are not more desirable. DCOs with CEM filters and VCAs.
2. Yamaha TG-33 / SY-22 I’ve never used one of these, so I can’t speak to them, but apparently people feel strongly about them. Enough to where I’m considering hunting one down. It is a vector synth like the Wavestation, Prophet VS, Microwave, et al, but unlike those, it combines that with a full FM synthesis engine. The reason, I think, that they don’t command higher prices today is that there are no filters. At all. My research shows they go for about $150 to $200, with occasional $75 - $100 bargains.
EDIT: 3. Kawai XD-5 This is a drum synthesizer that creates sounds with DCO oscs similar to those found in the ESQ, DW8000, etc. It is a sophisticated drum synth that is capable of both normal (albeit somewhat dated) and rather strange percussion sounds. They go for $125 to $175. (Or did today, anyhow.)
EDIT: 4. Pearl Drum-X This is an all-analog drum synth with kick, snare, and three tom voices. It has patch memory for 8 kits, and five trigger inputs. (No MIDI.) It is easily modded. Not terribly common, but they go for $75 to $150.
EDIT: 5. Lexicon Vortex Typical Lexicon semi-preset effects box of the era; however, it has one interesting feature. You can attach an expression pedal (and thus a modular synth) and “morph” between two states of a given preset. There is also an internal envelope morphing function. This unit requires some patience, and is really shitty as a send effect because the mix parameter is soft, and part-and-parcel of many of the presets. However, used inline on a synth or guitar, very strange and wonderful things are possible. I’ve seen these anywhere from $50 to $200.
Since we’ve already discussed the first two (or five, depending on how you count) ad nauseam, and all seem to agree they’re desirable, let’s start the list with them, and I’ll add to it as others come up that we all seem to agree on. The Ensoniq Fizmo can’t really be on the list, as it is borderline rare, and commands a minimum of $350 to $450 when it comes up (and works.) The Yamaha FS1R is also quite expensive; I rarely see them going for under $750. We’re looking for instruments and effects that can be had in the $50 to $200 range without looking too hard, that are innovative and unique enough to fit in the Secret Weapon category.
A side note: since I last mentioned it, we’ve updated Vapor and Rough Rider (free) to 32/64-bit. Adam is working on Dr. Device right now. We’re about 2/3 of the way done, and most of the remainder are pretty simple. So we should be done with this 64-bit update and back to making new shit Real Soon Now.
32 comments
If I could help William a bit here - I gotta disagree on the TG-33. I owned the SY-35 when it first came out, for about 5-6 years. Since it was my first programmable keyboard, I learned how to use the thing inside and out.
A Wavestation or VS it is not. 2OP FM is what you find in the likes of your old PC soundcard, or the Yamaha PSR/PSS series from that era. Combining it all together - yeah, kinda fun, but a lot of menu diving. Be prepared to dig out that old computer with SoundDiver if you want to get the most out of the 33.
If the FM+samples has anyone intrigued, I'd push more in the direction of an SY-77/TG-77 (too expensive to make the secret weapon list). Note that the LCD's on those typically need replacement, but you get the full DX 6-op synth engine, plus AWM2 samples. There was a converter long ago to make DX patches compatible with it - not sure if it's still around.
For more on the TG33: http://ow.ly/8IVdJ (not my site)
Not all that unique, but I've got a Roland Alpha-Juno 2 that was given to me, and gets a lot of mileage. Seven-stage envelope is the strong suit I suppose. Maybe after touch too, if it works (press hard!). And even though mine was free, they can be had for under $200, usually.
I had an SY-22 a long time ago. I used it to make noisy/"industrially"/metallic kinds of sounds. The lack of filters was a turn-off but it was capable of some interesting things. I think the Ensoniq stuff was far cooler (had a Mirage and EPS-M for many years and made killer sounds with those). Never owned one of the ESQ/SQ models but played with them a bunch and always thought they were excellent sounding synths.
I got lots of milage out of a Kawai K-1 programming the crap out of it; it was cool because many of the waves were single-cycle additive-based sounds from the K5. The K4 was also kind of interesting as they added filters and it could make some really noisy/farty/digital-meets-analog sounds.
Alesis Wedge. $50 bucks, and surprisingly good sounding. It's not an eventide, but it will do in some cases.
My first synth was the TG33. To access the full FM is a pain, as you have to use a software editor. It's not bad, but I guess having owned it for a long time, I don't see it as all that desirable.
Also add to that list the Kawai XD-5 drum module. A bit of a pain to use, but you could get some really weird and interesting sounds out of it if you were willing to put in the time. I kinda miss mine.
Ooh, that reminds me. I think everyone that has used one can agree we can add the Kawai XD-5 to the list, pending price research. What do these go for nowadays?
Edit: completed eBay auctions show $150-$179, so perfect for our list. Any disagreement on this one? Other than William, who will disagree because he thinks it is his secret weapon alone.
Edit 2: Heh. Noisetheorem simul-posted.
-CR
DeltaLab Effectron II ADM1024s. Can be easily had for under $100. Awesome old school digital delay with chorus and flange if you want it. Also has a modulator which fucks up your sound even more. And when you push the input, it distorts in the best of ways. Has a control input on the back into which you can send CV, though I haven't patched my modular that way yet. I've got two.
TX81Z, DX27/DX100 -- these are dirt cheap and have a unique sound. The TX81Z adds waveforms beyond the Sine, which means you can get it into the Usefully Ugly range very quickly. Last TX81Z I had was $50. I still have a DX27 that was $60, which means that it's a cheapish MIDI controller for less than an new Oxygen8. And it's old enough to be my Oxygen8's daddy, and the Oxygen8 stopped working over USB about a month after I bought it, even though all I ever did to it was put it on an A-Frame stand and diddled its knobs a few times.
I had an XD5 for quite a while, and it's the full on K4 architecture with a special drum sample ROM. Nasty-in-a-good-way digital lowpass filter, and you could get it to do some crazy sounds. Unfortunately front panel editing is pretty annoying and I've yet to meet a computer MIDI editor that was worth a fuck. Taylor Dupree was a big fan back in the day and some of the Taylor808 stuff was 90% XD5, but he had way more patience for the front panel than I did.
Of course everything the XD5 and Yamaha FM Synths can do can be duplicated in a computer these days, with a better UI, but I think some people like the sound of 20-year-old DtoA converters. If they want the ultimate in 90s-era audio, they should pick up a Mackie 1604 to run it through.
And by the way, a lot of the real classics of House and Techno was mixed on a 1604; in some cases, mixed down to cassette!
If I could help William a bit here - I gotta disagree on the TG-33. I owned the SY-35 when it first came out, for about 5-6 years. Since it was my first programmable keyboard, I learned how to use the thing inside and out.
A Wavestation or VS it is not. 2OP FM is what you find in the likes of your old PC soundcard, or the Yamaha PSR/PSS series from that era. Combining it all together - yeah, kinda fun, but a lot of menu diving. Be prepared to dig out that old computer with SoundDiver if you want to get the most out of the 33.
If the FM+samples has anyone intrigued, I'd push more in the direction of an SY-77/TG-77 (too expensive to make the secret weapon list). Note that the LCD's on those typically need replacement, but you get the full DX 6-op synth engine, plus AWM2 samples. There was a converter long ago to make DX patches compatible with it - not sure if it's still around.
For more on the TG33: http://ow.ly/8IVdJ (not my site)
The Yamaha RY-30 drum machine is a weird one. Basic sample based machine but with a world of synthesis options built in. I used to make whole alt-techno tracks on it before I even knew what the genre was. This was around 1992-93 I guess. You see them from time to time for about $100-200.
I still have an old Control Synthesis Deep Bass Nine. Originall devised as a 303 clone, it does one sound but it does it well. A really chunky bass sound like the beginning of St.Etienne's 'Like a Motorway' if anyone's familiar.
It's analog and can be found for about $50-$150. It's a 1U rack.
The Kawai K1 with a patch randomizer can do pretty wild noises. Pure fun.
A Big Muff isn't exactly a "secret" weapon, but it'll do a lot of cool things on synths.
A more secreter fuzz box is the Boss HM-2 Heavy Metal pedal. On the guitar and bass front, it was used by MBV, Godflesh, Slint, and others. Daft Punk and others used it on synths, and it gets a very distinctive growling sound, that is also "clear" at the same time.
I don't own the HM-2, and keep meaning to go get one. Fortunately, I doubt that they are particularly rare, due to their popularity during the hair metal days, and the robust Boss build.
Speaking of the opposite of robust builds, there are all sorts of DOD and Digitech pedals that would qualify as secret weapons (FX-25 envelope follower, analog delays, various Digitech delay pedals) if they still worked. The bypass footswitches ALWAYS fail. ALWAYS.
Man, I love all the SQ talk. We've been cranking out songs with libraries we've built using those and the EPS16+ for over a decade. I've able to pick up a backup SQR and a backup SQ1 for next-to-nothing...and every now and then, I'll poke around and track down a card for backup too.
One other work horse that doesn't/but should get a lot of love is the ESI series. I still have my ESI-32 with the updates...I know it's just a sampler, but those filters are the fantastic and can add some serious mojo to a mix.
If you find an XD5, check around for a Kawaii MM16, which was a kinda dumb MIDI Fader box that nonetheless had XD5, K1 and K4 editing presets.
Is the SQ-R derived from the SQ-80 or the VFX? I can't get a straight answer on that.
-CR
I always keep an eye for the ESQ's, but I never see them for that kind of price (unless it's blatantly not functioning).
Hard to get confirmation, but it looks to me like the SQ-1, SQ-2, and SQ-R are all derived from the VFX that preceded them, and not from the SQ80 and ESQ-1. Looks like the ESQ-M is the only rackmount of that family.
Any other takers (besides Jeff Laity) on the Wedge? I'm still not sold on that. Other digi-effects that merit consideration are the Lexicon Vortex and Yamaha REX-50. Others?
-CR
Yamaha RM-50. It's the Ry-30 minus the sequencer, with more internal waveforms, and trigger ins since it really is an electronic drum set brain.
Casio VZ series (VZ1, VZ-10m, VZ-8m) price depends on how patient you are, I got the one I have for $150
Not so secret but any of Emu's emulator 4 series samplers/synths (Esynth) are powerful synthesizers their own right and go for a fraction of what they cost when they were released more than 10 years ago. I think the same could be said about the Kurzweil K2000 series.
Kawai K3/K3m.
The Yamaha TX802 is one of the sweetest sounding pure FM synths... you can still pick them up for about $200.
The Kawai K3m is good alternative to the ESQ1m. Same kind of analog/digital hybrid. The K3 can also create it's own waveforms by tweak the harmonic content.
As for effects... The Prunes & Custard distortion and harmonic generator is fantastic! The Boss DC-2 is a great substitute for a Dimension D.
- Hugo
While I agree that the Boss DC-2 is a tiny treat in a pedal, and would like to have one, I would be _shocked_ to find an original one under $250. Usually much more expensive. That can't go in our list, unfortunately. Finding one for $100 to $200 would be a stroke of luck, not a normal event.
The TX802 also is rarely under $200. I would sub the TX81Z but not many people would agree with me. That synth is phenomenal for the price (usually $50 to $100) but it is not general enough (or perhaps _too_ general) to warrant mass inclusion.
-CR
This thread had 99 comments until that one.
But, speaking of half racks: Sony HR-MP5. Protip - the ones sold as "broken" just need new batteries. Some soldering required.
And, uh, anyone know where I can get some replacement knobs for a Sony HR-MP5?
@zerozeroisland: I will keep an eye out for the fx-500. I've heard about these before. My guess is that the reverse reverb patches are probably similar to the SPX90 as well. Get an Alesis Midiverb II for the Bloom algorithms and a Boss HM-2 Heavy Metal pedal, and you could have most of the My Bloody Valentine sound shaping tools for just over $100.
@zerozeroisland, I think the magic stomp has the same effects, although it's more expensive with less connectivity! I'm trying to sell mine because although I have the mk2 "deep editing" from the front panel isn't fun.
Everything I made on the ry30 sounded like super mario world sound effects, the pitch envelope was just calling out to me. I wasn't into the sequencer and sold it, but I kinda miss those noises now.
What about the tascam 424? It's not something that I'll always use, but when the mood hits me it's a fun, laid-back way to work (because I can easily transfer it to digital later to fix any serious goofs!).
obscurerobot
The shuttle dial or the input/output levels? The shuttle is avail on ebay, just search for sony v-77. Picked one up for my 77 and it is just fine, shipping takes a while from Russia tho. (I only needed the inner dial.) Currently looking for the concentric replacements on the i/o.
Lexicon lxp 1 & 5's are a treat but get the mrc. Watch for encoder issues tho. Not very replaceable. Roland SRV-2000's are a song and have a hidden delay function if you wish.
@zerozeroisland, I think the magic stomp has the same effects, although it's more expensive with less connectivity! I'm trying to sell mine because although I have the mk2 "deep editing" from the front panel isn't fun.
Everything I made on the ry30 sounded like super mario world sound effects, the pitch envelope was just calling out to me. I wasn't into the sequencer and sold it, but I kinda miss those noises now.
What about the tascam 424? It's not something that I'll always use, but when the mood hits me it's a fun, laid-back way to work (because I can easily transfer it to digital later to fix any serious goofs!).
Can anyone who has owned an XD-5 tell me if there is any hope of controlling parameters in realtime via Sysex? I am getting back into mine and I don't want to spend hours trying to rig something if no one has ever had luck doing so.
@Jonah the magicstomp! I can't believe I read this whole thread without thinking of it. I have the UB-99B (the bass version) and good lord it's a neat thing to have. I don't have a lot of reference points for hardware effects so I can't speak to the sound quality vs nice stuff, but the deep editing from the 3 knobs on the front is not terrible and every effect has basically 9 to 50 (yeah) parameters. It has a lot of strange effects that can get wild and from the deep editing you can assign what the 3 knobs do per patch, so you can basically set it up how you like and then pick 3 things to tweak. I got mine for $100, ebay seems to have them up to $150 now but if you're looking for a weird multieffect to fuck around with I don't think it's a bad choice. I'd say it's a good secret weapon candidate... anyone else have/used one?
I used to work with a guitarist whose entire rig was a magic stomp, a 2x50w mesa power amp and a 4x10 cab. I'm going to give a lot of credit to his magic fingers, but he could get a surprising number of sounds ot of that rig.
Inspired by this post, I tried to get my hands on the Ensoniq stuff, but it appears to be very hard to find. The few esq-1 that are available on ebay sell for over $350...
I agree with the RY30/RM50. I've had a few of those in the past, and they sound great! The control wheel on the RY30 is def unique. I also want to add the E-MU Procussion. Regularly under $100, and they sound REAL good! Listen to KMFDM's Nihil for what it sounds like. Its all over that one, as well as the first Excessive Force release.
Also, some of these prices i've been seeing are far from reality. MKS-50s for $50?? Fat chance in hell. If they were that cheap, i'd have a stack of them. And the Peavey filter is def more than $100 when they come up.
As for effects, the Ibanez DM1000 =o]
I can speak on a few of the nuggets listed here, & some that aren't.
Kawai XD5: Picked on up for $100 a couple of years back. Mean filters (except resonance only has 7 values), good samples, including some single cycle waveforms, multi outs are confusing, makes original sounds I don't get out of my machinedrum, ry30, rx7, mc505, r8 etc. Also got a K1m & can recommend as you won't find many 8-bit romplers around.
Roland R8: Going up in $ but you can still get one for under $200. The ability to make notes randomly play out of time, along with same option over sound parameters per step is still not replicated fully.I sold one with 8 cards last year & miss it, especially for the aftertouch/velocity pads.
RY30: Got one and thought of selling it, reckon I would only swap one for the RM50 as I have an electronic kit it would be fun to hook up with. Some call it the original groovebox, though I guess the roland tr's have that dubious honour. Really clean punchy sound quality. Anyone wanna swap in au?
Yamaha RX7: sequel to the RX5... has 4xmore waveforms & some other extras like delay, lfo etc. Missing the reverse option, individual outs & physical mixer of the rx5 but has the same 12bit grainy sound quality. $40. Is good.
MAM MB33 mk2: racked up tb303 ripoff thats 100% analog with PWM, sub osc, distortion & ext input. Cost me $150au and does amazing basses, although not all that in the high end & resonance tweezes out. Still, I consider it easily worth the money.
Roland GP8 - Rackmounted fx unit with 8 fx, 6 of which are full analog versions of their boss pedal counterparts. About $100. No brainer!
Alesis Quadraverb+: Characterful reverbs & modulations. Great for synths and again around $100. Never found this anywhere else but it has pressure sensitive buttons for faster scrolling. Brilliant idea!
Simmons sds8: like the Pearl drum-X, a 5 channel analog drum machine that has very sensitive triggers. I paid $250 which I think is still a bargain for 80's analog in a ridiculously well built chassis.
Korg X5dr: little late 90's rackmount rompler that has double the rom of the M1. Has some great bread/butter sounds in there & a brilliant set of drums, loads of fx & only $150.
Yamaha A4000: Very powerful sampler that doubles as a 3 slot fx unit (over 90 fx to choose from) & synth with built in waveforms. Paid $200. Came with internal hdd, scsi cd-rom & 128mb ram. Great value.
Roland EF-303: tactile step sequencer fx unit that has originality going for it. Not perfect (ie: only one effect at a time, really bad tb303 synth & drum machine included, confusing interface & manual) but well built & useful for live/ spontaneous stuff. Paid $100 about 5 yrs ago, sold recently for not much more than that.
There's more but don't want to spill too many beans ;-)
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