Our Hypocrisy Knows No Limits...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
Sorry for the lengthy pause, but we’ve been working long days since Thursday when we received the Propellerheads Rack Extension SDK. Since we’re under a fairly detailed NDA, I can’t really go in to all the trials and tribulations involved in making a Rack Extension; suffice to say that while the DSP part of things copies more or less straight across from our existing plugs, the GUI part is another matter entirely. It bears exactly zero resemblance to anything we’ve thus far experienced in The Land Of Plug-ins. If a plug-in dev doesn’t have someone on staff that has a fairly extensive knowledge of 3D modeling software and how assets from that software are utilized, that plug-in dev is gonna be pretty much out of luck when it comes to Rack Extensions.
With that caveat out of the way, we’re just about to send in our first Rack Extension, which is Rough Rider. Here’s a screenshot of Rough Rider in a Reason rack:
As you can see, instead of the “hidden” mix control (the bypass switch on the front panel of the Rough Rider VST and AU is actually a knob, as far as automation goes, if you weren’t aware) we’ve broken that out to a proper mix knob, as Reason doesn’t really have time for that sort of hidden tomfoolery. Here’s a screenshot of the back of the unit:
There is a CV output for gain reduction, just in case you want to use Rough Rider’s envelope to drive something else. To answer the obvious questions:
1. No, this will most assuredly not be free. We haven’t quite settled on a price yet, but it won’t be expensive.
2. We are going to wait and see if this does any numbers before making other products for Rack Extensions. We won’t be porting anything else directly, as the environment is simply too different. In the event, we will be making similar products that utilize the same basic DSP.
3. No you can’t beta-test. Don’t even think of asking me.
4. I don’t care if you don’t like the GUI. It was extremely difficult to make, and I just don’t want to hear it right now. Conversely, if you _do_ like it, now’s the time to tell me. Har har har.
37 comments
I like the GUI well enough. I find Reason to be a test to see how long one can stare at very small controls, so I like that you've opted for less-small controls. I can see where it might not have enough light/shadow effects for Reason users, though, they seem to really like that sort of thing.
Looks very nice. I love the knobs, a slight nod to the clear-skirt 1176 knobs but something new.
Dumb question, any presets? I'm not familiar with Reason's preset UI.
No, no presets.
-CR
I'm super excited to see this! So thanks for being hypocrites I guess?
My unsolicited advice as a longtime Reason user is to consider adding CV ins for everything you can. That will probably stop some of the complaints you would likely get.
But again, thanks for doing this. Your stuff is really the only reason I have a DAW at all.
Reason uses non-standard plugin formats so anything built for Reason only works in Reason, right? Is it also an app store model where they take 30% of your gross?
@darklordjames: It's not even really a plug-in, as such. And yes, it is also an app store model similar to Apple's.
@Tim: We'll get there. We had almost no time for this.
-CR
After your tweets a couple weeks ago, I figured you had written off this platform entirely. Nice to see that is not the case. Fucking hypocrites...
I hope this test is a success so that I might one day see Replicant in the Reason rack. Rewiring out to Live to use Replicant is cool, but having it in the ReRack would be preferable. Good luck.
No worries, obviously there are other ways to get CV to those knobs! Anyway, are you allowed to say why the rush all of a sudden?
Nope.
-CR
i don't care how it looks, so much, but that GUI looks very late '90's. I didn't really know anyone still used Reason either, so....
Looks reasonable to me.
I think it looks cool.
Can you trademark that colour-"AI Robot Blue"?
And lots of people "still use Reason". In the gazillions, I would reckon.
Looks cool to me. The GUI is probably the nicest out of all the 'extensions' I have seen so far.
If its at the right price point (say sub £30.00) I'd say you are onto a winner.
Reason is a fun program IMO. Makes a nice change from using Live for everything.
Its very cute. i can't quite put my finger on it, but its really exciting. a bit like when you buy pro wheels for your bike and you feel smug. I'm really happy that reason is headed in this direction. guys like me like buying cool toys
:#
I find the funny realistic-modelled GUI for Reason one of the reasons I like it but also one of its biggest weaknesses. It's so slavish to being based on "real" knobs and displays that it just throws away all the strengths of working in a virtual and extendable environment. After a few hours with Thor one time years ago, I realized how that interface could just be so much simpler if it weren't having to look like a real physical thing.
That said, I don't use Reason much, but I still find it fun. Kind of the way my 12u modular is like a giant stompbox, Reason is like a crazy plug-in.
When Reason announced 6.5, the first thing I thought of was that I'd love to see a few of your plugs ported, but it will be interesting to see where you guys go designing specifically for Reason instead.
I think the GUI looks great. It really ties the rack together.
Nice work!
This has no real impact on me as I lost patience with Reason a couple of versions ago.
More important -- you buried the lede! The bypass switch on Rough Rider is actually a knob?? Can you use automation to implement parallel compression with it?
I already have an Ableton Live Effects Rack preset in my library I use all the time that uses Rough Rider in a parallel 'New York' mode.
And as a testimonial -- I use Rough Rider as often as I do plugins I actually had to pay for. I have a UAD-1 so I have access to LA2A, 1176, and Fairchild emulations, so in the world of virtual studio baloney I think that has to count as a ringing endorsement.
OTOH I must not understand the UAD Fairchild emulation because it mostly makes things sound worse unless I tune it to where it's barely doing anything.
Rough Rider VST has always had a mix control. If you open up the slider panel in the generic interface of Live, you'll see that the "Active" switch is actually a slider.
-CR
Well, way to beat Propellerheads to the punch on this one. I, like chaircrusher, gave up on Reason awhile back, since the only usable way for me to work with it was rewiring to a DAW.
I'd say Adam deserves a bonus after slogging through all the 64 bit updates, then taking this on, but it sounds like a lot of the work was on your shoulders, CR.
On the subject of AD/CR GUI design...is it just me or does that new Steinberg SLM 128 meter look to be heavily informed by some of your recent GUI designs?
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/nuendo/slm_128_loudness_meter.html
I think it's pretty swank that AD "might" get into offering toys for ReRacks. One thing I find lacking from the fairly fun Reason experience is the dependable flava that my fav developers add to the mix everywhere else in the VST realm. I'm guessing here - but as an owner of all the significant DAW environments out there save Logic - I think I'd spend more time in Reason if I could have more of my stuff working natively in there. Rewire is alright, but having songs that need me to double my load-up time to access out-of-Props tools is a detractor no matter how it's sliced.
So fingers x'd that this sells a bucket-load for AD and encourages more profitable efforts for you guys in Props-land.
I think it looks pretty slick. Way to go.
Nice !
Now with recording and " plugins " all I need is midi out and Reason will be it as far as I care .
They are gonna get people bitchin their Protools plugins dont work with Reason racks : )
Ugh...Reason. Although good for AD, it might actually make Reason produced songs sound less shitty.
@D' MacKinnon - i've heard some amazing reason produced records. it comes down to the user not being lazy.
I'm with boobs. A tool's a tool. A hammer doesn't build a shitty house, and a blueprint doesn't design it.
-CR
I'm with boobs.
... been waiting for a good opportunity to press that button for more than a year now ... Got it out of my system!
Yeah, that's a long time to not be with boobs.
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I'm with boobs.
As far as finished products made made with Reason are concerned, it's hard for me to think of a better example than Luke Vibert. He apparently produces most of his work in Reason these days, and his last decade of albums have been incredible.
Maybe it's just that the majority of Reason users tend to be lazier that users of Ableton/Cubase/Logic. Lower bar of entry. I've heard of lot of songs from Reason that haven't sounded that great. The better ones that I've heard were composed in Reason but mixed later in Cubase or Logic.
I'll state for the record (hah!) right now that Reason is not my cup of tea as a user. It doesn't do a lot of things I need to do, and does a lot of things I don't like. I will in no way apologize for that. There are a lot of DAWs out there like that (granting that Reason and Record are "not DAWs"). I own licenses for virtually every possible mechanism of recording and playing back audio created for PCs and Macs, so I can use whatever I want, for the most part. I use Live when I'm feeling frisky and Cubase when I have work to do, because those two are comfortable and familiar to me, and do what I ask of them for the most part.
Now, with that out of the way, it should be noted that Reason's relatively static existence and insular nature allow a person to develop a mastery that isn't usually paralleled in other DAWs. I think of it more like I think of a sophisticated workstation (e.g. K2600) than as a DAW, and I know from my own experience with the K2xx series, and the Emax before that, that if you pick a particular tool and take the time to learn its tricks, and that tool doesn't change very often, you can develop a skill level with it that is difficult to argue with.
One could say that it is, perhaps, easier to make shitty music with Reason than it is to make _any_ music with, say, FL Studio. One wouldn't be wrong. And one could also say that it has a particular "sound" to it (but that is about to change). So one could make a sweeping generalization like "most songs I hear that were made in Reason are shitty" and one would be able to stand on that argument. However, the larger truth is that one has heard a lot of shitty songs, period.
-CR
I'm with boobs.
I've often wondered that if FL Studio presented the user with the piano roll on startup, rather than the step sequencer, whether there would be quite as much lazy (and downright shitty) tunes out there.
Perhaps the tunes would still be shitty, but with added plinky-plonky.
Gotta go - shitty drones don't finish themselves (not without turning up the reverb a bit more).
Not related...
went to images.google.com
search term 'grid'
first result...
http://imgur.com/IKZgR
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